Confusing confusing, lawd, this is confusing.

[michelle23]

Mature enough for no strings??? Sweetie it has nothing to do with maturity! Its got to do with emotional unavailability-that's all.

[michelle23]

I'm a mess. I'm insecure and leery of men, I don't know what I want and where I would like to go. But at least I know that I am completely screwed, and I'm attempting to fix it.

The first step to fixing this is to stop dating, stop having sex. You need to set higher expectations and standards for yourself. Stop giving yourself away so easily. That shows you have no self respect and you will only attract men who have no respect for women. And have higher expectations of men. They are not all bad. There are plenty of good guys out there like that guy you mentioned who want the picket fence dream.. The reason you are so weary of men and insecure is because you have bad taste in men and the only way to fix that is to set your standards higher. You have the power to change everything you are unhappy with but first you need to be strong enough to say NO IM NOT INTERESTED! then focus on being happy, healthy-emotionally and mentally alone first without any man in your life. Be independent, stand on your own two feet, have a positive attitude, dont take any crap from anyone, dont let anyone treat you badly, learn to walk away from men who have hurt you and dont give second chances.

You are worth more than that-you just need to believe it.

Also I would just like to add-this guy is laughing at you. He is a typical player. He will tell you what you want to hear but actions speak louder than words and he obviously thinks your a cheap slag coz he wouldnt keep asking you are you sleeping with every lad you smile at if he had any respect for you. His distruct in women says it all-that he is a sleaze bag and he presumes that everyone else is just like him. Do yourself a favour and tell him to get stuffed unless you want to be a puppet and let him pull your strings.

[warriormaiden]

I know marriage and children are not for me, this is something I am 100% certain on, and have been since I was a pre-teen. If he wants that for his future, fine, but I'm not going to be the one to give it to him.


And I thought I needed to take a break from men as well, which is what I was doing before this guy came back. I know I don't need a relationship or emotional attachment right now, which is WHY I was keen on no strings. I love myself, and I know that the only person whose going to look out and care about me, is me. Which is why I'm trying to figure whatever it is, out. If I was okay with what's happening, and dumb enough to not see the inconsistencies, I wouldn't be asking questions, I wouldn't be confused. I understand that sex does not equal love. I've done FWB successfully before, I understand how this goes. I'm not one to put myself out there in the open for something thats not guaranteed.

Which brings us back to why I'm hesitant about this guy. He wants me to step out on nothing but air, with absolutely no promises of my safety, and I can't. I won't.

[Wakeup]

Which brings us back to why I'm hesitant about this guy. He wants me to step out on nothing but air, with absolutely no promises of my safety, and I can't. I won't.

Then tell him to **** off and get on with your enlightenment and self-reflection.
Keep in mind that he "didn't come back" voluntarily looking for you. You sought him out for this mess.

You keep doing the same thing and expecting it to be uncomplicated. When has it EVER turned out uncomplicated where neither one or the other didn't get even more confused and fkd up then already were.

Take a break. Live your life with yourself for a change and stop calling on people you really don't want or who really don't treat you well because you're "lonely." Work on that.

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over again and expecting different results."

I hope you soon get an epiphamy. You deserve better then what you're allowing.

Here's a place to start your thinking on things:

I know marriage and children are not for me, this is something I am 100% certain on, and have been since I was a pre-teen. If he wants that for his future, fine, but I'm not going to be the one to give it to him.

Then answer me this: WTF would you continue to "see" a guy that has completely opposite ultimate dating/relationship goals then you do? You don't know when to leave.. that is one of the things that is making you so confused.

[warriormaiden]

He thinks he's going to change my mind.

I've sat down with him, more than once, and told hik that I don't want a relationship at the moment, that I don't see being a wife and mother in my future, and that its best that he moves on. But I guess he's still hanging on to hope. We go on dates, we have a good time (I'm not sleeping with him. One guy at a time, here.) And thats it.


I don't really see this guy as a player, Michelle. He has only had two GF's and slept with 4 girls. In the past four years. He's a computer game nerd. :p

And I will talk with him tonight about this. I have made up my mind.

[Wakeup]

He thinks he's going to change my mind.

I'm not asking him why he stays with you, I'm asking you why you continue wasting your time with a man that wants a wife and children when you don't. I thinks its more you're hoping you'll change his mind or you're afraid to be without a date so you continue in a dead end relationship (another one, you're currently in two of those)

I've sat down with him, more than once, and told hik that I don't want a relationship at the moment, that I don't see being a wife and mother in my future, and that its best that he moves on. But I guess he's still hanging on to hope. We go on dates, we have a good time (I'm not sleeping with him. One guy at a time, here.) And thats it.

Why don't you leave him instead of using him? Why not just say we don't want the same things so have a good life and good luck looking for someone who can give you what you want? Why this codependency? Why this hanging onto him when you don't have the same goals (asked again for YOUR reasons, not his)

I don't really see this guy as a player, Michelle. He has only had two GF's and slept with 4 girls. In the past four years. He's a computer game nerd. :p

quantity has nothing to do with whether someone is a player or not.

And I will talk with him tonight about this. I have made up my mind.

What will you say... what are your ultimate thoughts and wants?

[warriormaiden]

Now that I think about it, I don't know. I enjoy his company and everything, but if he was suddenly moved to planet mars, I wouldn't care, really. Wow. Thats sad. Urrg.

I enjoy his company, and I enjoy how we are together. And I suppose I don't want to lose that? Theres only certain things you can do with certain people, and they're fine with that.


I'm going to tell him that I can't be emotionally invested in something thats never going to happen. Its not safe for me, its not safe for him, just a bad idea all around.After this, I'm just going to continue to focus on myself and my career, and just.....leave the boys alone.

[Wakeup]

Now that I think about it, I don't know. I enjoy his company and everything, but if he was suddenly moved to planet mars, I wouldn't care, really. Wow. Thats sad. Urrg.

it's more then sad, it's a total waste of both your's and his time. You are only seeing him because he's better than being alone. He's so codependent and lame that he thinks he's so good that he'll change your mind. Ugh is right.

I enjoy his company, and I enjoy how we are together. And I suppose I don't want to lose that?

How selfish of you... You're the player.

Theres only certain things you can do with certain people, and they're fine with that.

nice way of trivializing romantic stagnation. Whatever gets you through the night, I guess.

I'm going to tell him that I can't be emotionally invested in something thats never going to happen. Its not safe for me, its not safe for him, just a bad idea all around.

Really? Are you going to tell him its over and he shouldn't call you anymore and if you call him, to ignore you. Seems that'sthe only way you'll give this up without hoovering him back in at a later date.

After this, I'm just going to continue to focus on myself and my career, and just.....leave the boys alone.

Good idea for now. When you're ready to date again, you'll be feeling so much better with whom you are with if you pick somone who is compatible. To be able to pick someone compatible, you need to know what it is you actually want. If the guy you're seeing isnt giving you what you actually want, then you leave before it gets complicated like this thing you're currently in.

Straight up:
The Keys are: learn from your mistakes so you don't keep making the same ones and Know what you want so that you can choose someone compatible.

[michelle23]

Can i ask y you dont want marriage r kids?

[warriormaiden]

Well that was a total bust.
I told him that this had become greatly emotionally confusing for me, and that we should go our separate ways. His response?
Let me show you that we're more than sex, let me take you out, I want you to be free to let out all your inner dork and nerd, just let me show you!!
Erm, isn't that called dating?
Anyway, I was getting a migraine from lack of food and stress, so I told him that we'll finish this tomorrow and left.
And good idea Wakeup about ignoring the phone calls. I'll remember to tell him that, I don't think I can trust myself. :/


The reason why I don't want to be married is because I find it sexist, dated, and unnecessary. As a little girl I found it to be almost like a prison sentence for a woman, and as I got older I realized it was restricting for men its well. It has absolutely nothing to do with love, and is as necessary as a corset and six layers of petticoats.


The reason why I don't want any kids is because, I've had a taste. I'm the eldest of 4. Ever since I was 12 I've been mom #2. Raising children draws on your emotions like nothing ever can. Kids need guidence 24/7, emotionally, mentally, physically, even when they're sleeping, and it takes a GODLY amount of patience. Even when they're adults yoy remain a role model, a pillar of wisdom. You lose YOU in the process, you'ee suddenly now and forever so and so's mom. Its almost like a death sentence.

[bearz]

I don't necessarily agree with your views on marriage and children (and I'm pretty sure you will think about it differently in 10 or so years as well) but I respect that you are honest about it, hopefully to him as well? Have you explained all of this to him like you just did here? You both want two different things out of life and whatever you two have or want with each other isn't going to work. He won't be able to change who you are but he will keep trying as long as you let him. The only way you will get out of this is by not seeing and talking to him anymore.

[Wakeup]

Lets pretend you and I are having a girls night out and a great conversation over a glass of nice red wine and ...

First off... looking after your siblings as a full time job at the age of 12 is NOT the same as looking after your own child as an adult so your preconceived ideas about parenthood shouldn't be the gauge as to whether or not you want them. You're of course entitled to not want children and to try and talk you out of that is ridiculous but don't base your decision on what you're basing it on because there is no comparison. "You lose you in the process." Funny, that never happened to me? I would certainly understand it happening when a Tween has been forced to take the ROLE of mother though.

told him that this had become greatly emotionally confusing for me, and that we should go our separate ways. His response?
Let me show you that we're more than sex, let me take you out, I want you to be free to let out all your inner dork and nerd, just let me show you!!

To stay with him now would be cruel. He's just afraid to be without you but I'm sure within a month (or less) he'll be over you and onto someone who actually wants the same things he does. How could you even have sexual fun now knowing that he's such a sap and could actually "beg?" I don't know about you, but I'd lose sexual attraction knowing he's trying to "win me over to his side." The guilt knowing that I don't feel the same way or want the same things would ruin my libido with him. FB's are supposed to be fun, no strings attached, non complicated affairs. This thing you have with him is anything but that.

The reason why I don't want to be married is because I find it sexist, dated, and unnecessary. As a little girl I found it to be almost like a prison sentence for a woman, and as I got older I realized it was restricting for men its well. It has absolutely nothing to do with love, and is as necessary as a corset and six layers of petticoats.

Let me clear you up on this preconceived notion. Marriage today is about equal partnership. You don't even have to be married this day and age because common laws protect the woman now and the very fact that we can work in at one time, jobs that only men were ALLOWED to position makes marriage unnecessary except for easing a mind-set that has been drilled into us by Government and Church that it's the "total commitment." Under God and Law. Not anymore.

Do you ever plan on living with a man or is your thoughts that you don't ever want to share your home for more than a day or two with any one guy? Anyway... whatever you do, for your own psychological and emotional well being, please pick a guy that has the same philosophy on marriage, kids and cohabitation as you do. You'll be so much happier if you do.

And good idea Wakeup about ignoring the phone calls. I'll remember to tell him that, I don't think I can trust myself. :/

Tell him before he tries to keep calling you. (after you've actully ended it as you seem to have left it unfinished) that you'll not be returning his calls. Tell him that you've tried to tell him on several occasions that you didn't want the same things he did but he wouldn't listen and so for the sake of both of your own emotional health, you're ending it. If you still cave after that declaration then I suggest you consider therapy to help you overcome your inability to go cold turkey from what would appear to be your sexual addiction to him. You don't love him so what else could it be, Warrrior?

[warriormaiden]

I've always thought that I would have a boyfriend for the next 50 years. Like a Oprah and Stedman thing? He has his own place, and I have mine, or we could share, it wouldn't matter. Just as long as we understood each other and there was love there. Of course I don't want to go through the stranger's bed to stranger's bed cycle for the rest of my life, that absolutely has no fulfillment for me. This guy told me that he would be down for that kind of relationship.

Speaking of our talk.
It was easier, I reiterated about the confusion, and how this whole thing was basically something that we were pretending wasn't a relationship.
Then he goes on and says thanks to the last girlfriend, that part of him that was able to attach to people has been shattered, and he doesn't think he'll ever be that way again.
Which, of course, is total BS.
He then says if I were to suddenly jump up and leave he wouldn't care, yadda yadda, basically a COMPLETE turn around from the first talk.
But ended it with saying that he understood I need to figure some things out, but couldn't help but feel greedy in wanting me. Yadda yadda. I said for his best interests, he should block me, and that was that.
I think he's as messed up as I am, and won't even acknowledge it. I know this kid, since we were youths battling each other on WoW. He gets attached easily. Thats the way he is.
He's a romantic. Thats the way that it is.
He wants MARRIAGE.
This new talk about no attachment, is coming out of bitteness and pain. Let miss Perfect walk by, and he's gone, right after her. He doesn't have to play this part for me. All because 'he doesn't want to run me away'. Pfft.

I understand that a woman's role is no longer the same as when my grandma was my age. Its not for necessity anymore, its for tradition. And I feel like its a tradition that needs to be shook loose.
I hate the assumption that women receive when it comes to marriage, I hate how men talk about it, I find weddings to be obnoxious, just the whole thing screams WRONG to me. Lol. You can be perfectly happy without signing your wealth, and name away.
Me and guy #2 has had conversations about this, but he usually just gets quiet about it, and then changes the subject. Every time. So that makes me think he's still going to try, even when I have stated my opinion on it.

I have shaken him off twice, over the past two years. We always seem to bump into each other again.

When I said 'lose your identity' I meant as....as soon as you have a baby, every part of your life is now devoted to that child. Which, it should be. In order to raise a healthy stable human being.
But that is a mission that I seriously doubt I can pledge my life to.
Those ten years, were not me just babysitting. I was raising my siblings. And that is something no child should have to go through EVER, because of irresponsible parents.
That experience has jaded me towards the idea, but it has made me responsible and more level headed. Despite what this thread says about me. :p
Having a successful career in Law, sounds a heck of a lot easier than being a little tyke's mommy.

[michelle23]

You should stay strong. Put your foot down, tell him you are not happy with the current situation and you feel its too late now to start dating coz you have already done everything backwards. Just say no and ask him nicely to respect your decision and not to contact you again

Your opinions about kids may change as you get older. Looking after siblings in your teenage years is totally different to looking after your own child as an adult. Ya im sure its not always easy-but most parents say the good outweighs the bad by a long shot. If Im lucky enough to live into old age-I want to be surrounded by my children and grandchildren when I die. If you die alone-your life would be a bit pointless I think. Of course its your choice and I respect your opinion but what are you going to do instead if you never plan to have kids?

As for marriage I think I agree with you a little. I believe in marriage but only if Im 100% sure about the man I am marrying. Just dont marry a lazy slob or a selfish pig

[Sirana]

I will tell you what my best friend told me!
"Men are pigs! Once they sleep with a woman, they think she is theirs for the rest of the life and they have every rights to own her and not share her! This doesn't mean he likes you, wake up. He wants you as an option when he feels he wants to hang out with you. He might like you. Men are men. Untill he doesn't tell you straight in your eyes I want to be with you, only with you, nothing counts!"
She told me those words, anyway. If a dude is saying those wonderful things, then he gets annoyed when you mention a relationship and ask him what does he really wants and he gives you mixed signals. I think it simply means that he is that kind of guy who can't stand the fact my friend told me above. Yes, maybe guys need some time to figure things out and think about it. So they act one way, then another and they are sensless.
Look, he probably knows you are doing it with someone else, if you didn't tell him. I don't want to be rude now, but a guy cannot value woman who was honest and said I have sex with multiple men besides you. He is probably confused and his value of yourself in his eyes is pushing him away.
Do you want to be with him or not?