Philosophers Throughout The Ages

[bohemiandonut]

On another late night of contemplation, I have interpreted the role of philosophers throughout the ages. Join me as we travel back to a simpler time, when man was first learning to communicate with his ape-like brethren...

Philosopher Ape: Hello sir. What are you afraid of?
Common Ape: Afraid of? Um... Pain, I guess.
PA: Pain, huh? Well, you should really be afraid of death.
CA: What is death?
PA: Well, you see, at some point you will cease being able to live on this planet. When you reach that point, you can't return, and that's what death is.
(Pause.)
CA: Yeah, that sounds pretty scary.
(A few thousand years of evolution...)
PA: But really you have no reason to fear death.
(Pause.)
CA: I'm still afraid of pain.
PA: I know. I know...

Since we don't know what death is, is it logical to fear an unknown?
Does living in the present require abandoning the fear of death? The fear of pain? Both?
Is fear the fundamental human emotion? Should it be overcome?

Just some food for thought after all the recent threads mentioning the whole "live for the moment" problem.

[misombra]

man, you've been reading too many alan watts books.

[Junket]

When in doubt, have a milkshake.

[indigosoul]

Now I know why the question: "what is the sound of 1 hand clapping?"...it's cause the other was holding a joint. Cut it out, BD!

[Illusional]

i think that overall people fear the unknown. little children are afraid of the dark because they are afraid of monsters that might be under their bed. also humans in general are lazy. they love to do things the easy way and thus the painless way. my live for the moment train of thought is why worry about tomorrow when it might never come. being that you only live once, i don't believe that we are reincarnated and i'm not sure if i even believe in a heaven or life after death. that is my basic motive.

raverboy

[Chlorine]

Donut----"Does living in the present require abandoning the fear of death? The fear of pain? Both?"

Personally, I'de want death to come swift and quick. I'm afraid of pain, more so than death. I'de be more worried if someone told me I was going to live forever [in this human state].

[Kiechi]

Donut----"Does living in the present require abandoning the fear of death? The fear of pain? Both?"

Personally, I'de want death to come swift and quick. I'm afraid of pain, more so than death. I'de be more worried if someone told me I was going to live forever [in this human state].

With me it depends with the type of "death" I would encounter. I for 1, would not like to die in my sleep. There is something about it that I don't like. When i'm dreamin' and i'm aware I am, I try to wake up and I can't. As a child that used to scare the hella outta me.

[Chlorine]

Kiechi----That happens to me sometimes. I'm trying to wake myself up in my dream but I can't. It becomes agony. It's willing yourself to wiggle a toe, move an arm etc.

But death in one's sleep can't be like that? Can you imagine, willing yourself to stay alive as you slowly ebb away. Arrghghhghghgh :-(

[Innova]

"A moment...a single moment of true joy, is more powerful then a lifetime of sorrow"

Basically talking about the risk of doing something, knowing full well it won't last.

[bohemiandonut]

Kiechi----That happens to me sometimes. I'm trying to wake myself up in my dream but I can't. It becomes agony. It's willing yourself to wiggle a toe, move an arm etc.

But death in one's sleep can't be like that? Can you imagine, willing yourself to stay alive as you slowly ebb away. Arrghghhghghgh :-(

Instead of fighting it, why not create your own dream? If you're talking about sleep-paralysis, where you just cannot will yourself to move, I too have experienced that; it can be pretty terrifying, admittedly. But lucid dreaming, being aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming, is a gift. I've been trying long and hard to achieve that. Don't waste it!

I actually think dying in one's sleep would be a great way to go. Since you are conscious while you are asleep (as in, you are self aware while you are dreaming, it's only your memory system that has changed), I can imagine death being fully observable and experienceable, like a final dream... We are straying way to far from the topic, before it has been addressed.

You all have expressed that you afraid of pain, and some of you death (though it seems you mean a painful death in particular.) But isn't this contradictory to living for the moment?

To truly experience the present, you must abandon the future. I think this is possible, but hard to do, and fleeting. No one can really "live in the present." That would require no sense of fear, ever. Because though the future can be hopeful, it is always uncertain. And uncertainty is fear, right?

I think that's what meditation is all about. Abandoning the fear of uncertainty for the joy of NOW. I think I'll take it up.

After I go get a milkshake.

[Illusional]

that is really weird. when i'm dreaming, and i decide that i don't really care for this dream, i force myself to wake up. in fact, speaking of dreaming, last night i was dreaming that dead people were trying to tell me something. i just seen gothika and there was a resemblance. however back to the point, i woke up in the middle of the night only to fall asleep later and continue the same dream. why can't i ever continue a dream about sex when i actually dream of it?? dammit.

raverboy

[Chlorine]

Donut----"To truly experience the present, you must abandon the future."

I think it is possible; abandon all fear of the future. If that's the case, I'de continue my life the way it is now. Slow, not too much going on, more sports and fun. However, the moment I start thinking 'hey this is all good and well, but what about 5yrs down the road?', immediately my perspective gets totally warped. I start fretting and fussing and digging myself into a deeper hole.

In reality, lots of people plan like mad for the future. However the best laid plans will only go accordingly, if the circumstances remain the same (which it never does).

Illusional-------You can continue the dream! Heh...let's say you were dreaming that you were talking to a beautiful woman. Than mid-conversation, you wake up and find you're in your bed. Don't turn, don't rub your eyes, don't move. Just relax, think of the conversation, and let yourself drift off back into sleep and back into the conversation. It can be done! I've managed this.

However, if you concentrate too hard, you will only wake yourself up with your thoughts of concentration :-D

[bohemiandonut]

One method of continuing a dream is to stay awake for 2 hours after you wake up, and then go back to sleep, thinking of the dream as Chlorine said.

The idea is that your brain waves, the ones that control dreaming, continue to wave even after you've gotten up. When you wake, you're usually in REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which produces the most vivid dreams. The waves get longer the longer you have been asleep, and so if you wait 2 hours after waking up, when you fall back asleep you will be right at the crest of your REM stage.

Try it! It makes for some intense dreams. They aren't even like dreams man, it's hard to describe... I did this and then had 4 lucid dreams in a row, where I was floating up from my bed and swimming around my room like a balloon... It's a trip.

Peace.

[Only-virgins]

Is this some insult to philosophy. If so then the poster is a moronic dumbass. What the hell is with the milk shake crap anyways?

[Chlorine]

Donut----I wouldn't want to invoke dreams. Sometimes dream reflect memories from the past. Even worse, sometimes it can be a premonition because all your real fears, inner most thoughts, play out into one long dream. Everything that was ever suppressed by daytime consciousness tends to resurface at night. Uuughghgh.