Is this the end? Or can we salvage it? Long post, sorry!

[Mademoi]

Thank you to anyone who reads the following and would like to weigh-in on how you would react to the situation!

Let me start out by saying I have always been opinionated and stubborn.* But not without the ability to compromise.* My sister-in-law and sister have told me multiple times that I'm the negotiator in the family, always trying to bring everyone together and make sure everyone is happy. I definitely have that “mothering” instinct, while also being independent and valuing alone time.* So while my stubbornness definitely clashes with some people, my biggest concern is that everyone is happy--including myself.

I met someone nearly fours years ago who was attractive, sweet, and conservative.* I'm staunchly liberal.* I knew it was probably a bad idea getting too involved with him because of our political differences, but I fell in love with his genuine heart and true love of me, despite my flaws.* And for awhile I overlooked our differences.*

Then I moved abroad (something that was planned before we ever met).* While I was abroad the boyfriend came to visit multiple times and invited me to live with him when I moved back.* I was thrilled even though it all seemed a bit fast and I wasn't POSITIVE I was ready to sacrifice my traveling goals to be with him.* Then, a month before we were supposed to travel around Europe together for a month, he calls me to tell me he doesn't want to move in together, doesn't want to travel together, and instead wants to break up.* I was devastated, and felt like the rug was pulled out from under me.* And while we were able to talk things out without breaking up, I never fully trusted his intentions after that.

Three months later I had moved back home and was preparing to move abroad again, due to the fact that he didn't want to live with me and was threatening breakups, and I didn't want to give up my dreams for someone who I didn't fully trust not to break-up with me again.* Six weeks before I was about to move, he broke up with me again.* I was hurt* but not surprised, and didn't try to make the relationship work, even though I really missed him and was still in love with him.* Two weeks before I left, we talked about how strong our love still was.* We were very, very friendly even as I moved abroad and spoke on the phone daily.* He came out to visit me in the winter and we got back together.* He was my rock through many hardships and I was very thankful to have him there for me, even though we were bickering often, mostly because I felt I couldn't trust him and was questioning everything he said for some hidden meaning.* I was putting myself--and him--through hell even though we were still very grateful to be back together.

Regardless of our bickering, we decided that when I moved back home for good that we would move to the city together so I could find a job and so, even though I was giving up living abroad, at least I'd be in a city where I was happy and the commute for him would be the same as where he was living prior.* But our fighting got worse.*

We argued about politics.* He told me he believed in Creationism, and I felt angry over the fact that he hadn't expressed this earlier as I find belief in Creationism over Evolution silly (no offense to anyone out there this just goes to show our tension). He told me before in the relationship he felt closer to liberal beliefs to conservative ones, but openly mocks president Obama to my face and to my friends, posting fairly conservative political rants on Facebook and attacking my friends when they make liberal posts. I find this highly disrespectful and highly upsetting. He told me if I became pregnant he would abort the child. If we got married he'd want a pre-nup, and he can't see us getting married anyway with how much we fight. He offered to kiss my sister on New Year's (then said he was drunk and doesn't remember doing this). This made her and me extremely uncomfortable. He is quite aggressive and competitive and brings this into our relationship. He is in no way abusive but instead contradicts my statements with a counterpoint whether he agrees with me or not, and points in my face and laughs at me when I can't say what he wants me too.

I've thought about leaving many times, but he is also gentle and supportive in many other ways and I find it very, very hard to leave, especially since my job is here and finding an apartment is very expensive and difficult, but mostly because I blame myself for not being able to overlook these problems and just accept him as he is.

Now he tells me that his stepdad thinks I'm high maintenance and that his friends think I expect too much. All I want is for us to get along. If he could support my views without pulling the rug out from under me then I would be happy.

I feel like his friends and family don't know how much he has said that is hurtful, and it always makes me look like the bad guy. I want us to agree, or at least respect each other. I want us to be on the same team. I don't ask for much more than that but for us to want the same things out of life. I feel like his friends hear that I buy him new shoes and clothes or hear that we are having a fight and assume I'm being unreasonable and dramatic. We recently went to a wedding where he openly told me as soon as we arrive at the wedding that Obama was corrupt and couldn't be trusted (I'm an Obama supporter), wouldn't acknowledge that that was rude and apologize for getting in my face, and didn't do anything when his mother kept laying into me at the wedding about when we were getting married and didn't I think her son was the best thing since sliced bread. Weddings are hard for me to go to now period because I keep replaying in my mind how he doesn't see us getting married, and would abort our kids. I wanted nothing more than a happily ever after and am frustrated that it didn't work out that way. He and his mom would run off together and ignore me at the table. I was in tears and felt so helpless and frozen by his behavior. I tried so hard to try and overlook my feelings but that was definitely an ultimate low point for me. He, even days later, couldn't see why his behavior came off as rude.

I feel like my frustration with him is definitely pulling us apart, but I have been having a really hard time with some of the venomous things he has said to me. Especially when he attacks my politics to my face on a daily basis and tells me he doesn't want kids with me, then when I'm in tears saying I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want those things with me he tells me that of course he wants to change and of course he wants children and a future with me one day. Right, of course! How could I POSSIBLY think otherwise.

My boyfriend is very kindhearted and easy to please and that's what people see, and I feel like people are putting all our problems on my shoulders because I'm quiet and reserved. It is adding to the stress and resentment I feel of someone who showered me with love the first year we were together, and then since then has stripped it away in little bits. I don't think he means to, he just doesn't know how to be anyone but himself. He was his mother's favorite child, even he and his mom admit that, and he was never made to apologize and was very seldom reprimanded. He constantly talks about how he wants to be a kid again and how he won't marry me until our lives are like they were when he was younger. This really weirds me out and puts very unrealistic expectations on the relationship. His sister doesn't even talk to the family anymore, so I think that goes to show that his home life wasn't always perfect. Not that that's his fault, but he chooses to view his past through rose colored glasses, and hasn't much learned from his mistakes.
Not to say I've been blameless, because I have NOT! After he broke up with me the second time I started calling him jerk and asshole when I was very upset. I am NOT proud of this. I have tried breaking up with him before out of frustration in the past year, but my heart wasn't in it. I just was so desperate I didn't know what other choice I had. I've told him he was mean and a bad person for hurting my feelings, I've even said **ck you on numerous occasions. Even though I know he's none of those things. I am shocked at how I've become the person who could say those things.
He has stood by me through health problems, deaths, horrible jobs and bosses and very stressful living situations and always offered comfort. But the bad parts have become so hard. I don't want to leave but I don't know if this relationship is repairable. I'm depressed. I don't know what to do.
We're seeing a counselor but the fighting is only getting worse. I love him and want to work things out but don't know if that's possible. He has a great heart and is capable of so much, but I've become so bitter and jaded. How do you forgive and move on? Is it possible to forgive and move on?!

Even if I could have a buddy to talk about these things with, not a friend who will judge him and me for them later on down the road, that would be so helpful!

[ttylox]

I blacked out about half way through the first paragraph but I think I get this gist of it all.

Are you back home now or still living abroad?

Ummm I think your relationship sounds complicated and I feel like you're over-complicating it by obsessing over every little thing and trying to find a deeper meaning where there isn't one. Get out of your head! And also STOP worrying about what other people think of your relationship... that is incredibly unhealthy and shows some major insecurity on your part. Who the hell cares what his friends and family are saying - but he should really try and refrain from airing your dirty laundry to everyone in his life.

Both of you need to make a decision as a team to work on this and put everything you've got into it if you're going to have a fighting chance. Talk to the therapist, not to your friends/family about it and certainly do not let him go badmouthing you or talking about your relationship problems with his friends/family. Seeking guidance or a shoulder to cry on is one thing, but it sounds like everyone knows your business - and that's not okay! If you can get on the same team and stop battling each other you'll be much better off. Sit down with him and make a pact to treat the relationship with respect - nurture it and make it a priority to be nicer to each other.

Annnd maybe turn your TV off on Tuesday.

[IndiReloaded]

Bottom line: you have needs. He's not meeting them. Quite possibly he *can't* meet them. Unless you are prepared to deny yourself those needs, which is what 'accepting him for who he is' amounts to, then you need to move on. Your frustration with each other is bringing out the worst in both of you.

Its that simple. Sometimes, great people just aren't great together. That's just how it goes. Be glad you aren't married with children to consider.

[Mademoi]

Yes true. I felt very secure at the beginning but once he tried to put an end to it I started second-guessing everything. I want to get back to that secure place but don't quite trust him, as I am still bearing the scar of multiple bouts of rejection by him. And I want his family and friends to like me. That is very, very important to me. I don't want to be looked down on by those he loves most. I've always felt this way, even before I met him. I've always wanted to be liked by my significant other's inner-circle.

What I want is respect, for him to see when he's going to the point of no return and stopping himself. He is just so talkative that he feels the need to fill any silence with his opinions, and many of his opinions are not thought-out (which even he admits he talks without actually thinking about what he's saying). He is a lot like his mother in this way, whom he constantly shushes. But I can't shush him (or even say, "you've made your point") without us getting into a screaming match. I don't understand why he has such a hard time showing respect to me. I know we're not married so you'd think it would be easy to leave but it is not at all. Sometimes I wish we were married as it would help us not get to the point of "we're disagreeing so that means we should break-up", we'd have vows and laws that would help us prioritize our relationship...sigh.

[ttylox]

we'd have vows and laws that would help us prioritize our relationship...sigh.

Uhmmm, what? Vows and laws are not going to help you here, sista - sorry but that's just not how it works. It's not like you get married and then suddenly you absolutely have to get along and love each other and stay married forever. A lot of married couples hate each others guts - and have you any idea what the divorce rate is?

Being married is about as effective at solving relationship issues as rubbing dogshit on your chin is at achieving world peace.

[Mademoi]

No, I know that. I know how great the divorce rate is and that marriage is really in the end just a piece of paper, but the stated commitment to each other is what I'm searching for. Instead of the constant threats and uncertainty. I like the idea of sitting down and putting together, in writing, a list of our commitments to each other to work on, so we have an agreement about what we're going to do rather than just empty promises made to put an end to a fight.

[IndiReloaded]

What I want is respect, for him to see when he's going to the point of no return and stopping himself. He is just so talkative that he feels the need to fill any silence with his opinions, and many of his opinions are not thought-out (which even he admits he talks without actually thinking about what he's saying). He is a lot like his mother in this way, whom he constantly shushes. But I can't shush him (or even say, "you've made your point") without us getting into a screaming match. I don't understand why he has such a hard time showing respect to me.

Maybe b/c its clear you don't respect him? Did you read what you just posted as to your opinion on how he expresses himself?

He's talkative. So what? He expresses opinions that "aren't thought out". Again, so what? Some people think out loud, particularly around people they trust. Its not a crime. What is the real issue here? Just a guess but perhaps *you* find his talking embarrassing? Unless he's hurting someone, that's not his problem its yours. Why do you need to shush him?

I think you are confusing respect for you with issues to do with your own discomfort.

[IndiReloaded]

I like the idea of sitting down and putting together, in writing, a list of our commitments to each other to work on, so we have an agreement about what we're going to do rather than just empty promises made to put an end to a fight.

This is a good idea, and one I would encourage you both to work on together.

[Mademoi]

I see what you're saying, Indie, but I think his comments bother me because they do feel like a direct attack or like he's trying to start something. Saying he can't stand Rachel Maddow even though he knows my parents and I watch that show, he thinks she's a bitch, telling me my sister is lazy and irresponsible when I feel like judging each other's family members in front of each other should be OFF limits, randomly making comments about how America is the best country and he can't stand how dirty and backwards Turkey is...while we're on the tram in Turkey surrounded by Turks. These comments, to me, are disrespectful and not thought out and show very little regard for my feelings or the feelings of others. To me it's beyond being uncomfortable, it's him saying highly charged things and then getting angry when I take offense or am bothered by it. To me, anyone who talks this way knows they're starting an argument, but he has told me before that "if I'm not going to agree with him he rather I didn't respond at all".

[Mademoi]

So, in other words, this doesn't feel fair. When my friends ask me why he made certain comments and that he made them feel uncomfortable, then it should become his problem. But he doesn't seem to care. And that hurts a lot. And yes, I admit, his lack of respect for others makes it much harder for me to respect him in return.

[searock]

He is abusive, and the only reason you fail to see this is that you are emotionally dependent on him. You need to walk away from this man.

[Mademoi]

I understand how it can seem that way, searock, but I don't think he is abusive. I think it seems that way on this post because I am posting all of our problems and from my side, not his. I don't think he's abusive, just misguided and I'm not sure if he cares about me as much as I like to think. But maybe he does and it is just my insecurities getting us to this point. I don't know. I admit some of the things he said seemed like emotional abuse at the time, but I know they were said in anger and that either one of us share the blame on that end. That doesn't make it easier to forgive, however that's why we're seeing a counselor and why I'm asking so many people for advice.

I do just wish he'd act like he cares about not hurting my feelings and those of others without telling me that I'm stifling him or not allowing him to say whatever is on his mind. I simply feel as though, even with him, with my closest friends, with my family, there are some things you just don't say because you care about the other person's feelings. I feel like he was never raised with that mindset. He doesn't seem to realize how much I bite my tongue around him. It is a nice thought to think he tells me everything that's on his mind because he trusts me, but in turn I find it very difficult to trust him because of all the thoughtless things he has said to me, as well as just flat out ignoring me and my wishes. I just feel at a loss at this point.

I do like the idea of writing out our commitments to one another, and then perhaps putting a deadline on having things improve? Like, putting together a list of our commitments, then saying "If by January 31st we felt things haven't improved we will go our separate ways, mutually and with no hard feelings?". How does this sound?

[searock]

I agree with the list of commitments thing. If it were me, I wouldn't stand a man who openly denigrates and makes fun of me and my views, in front of others or not, whether he does it with manipulating (abusive) intents or not. But that's me.

[Mademoi]

I agree but it's been four years and I'm in love. That is the problem... It's hard but walking away is even harder.

[ttylox]

Walking away is always difficult - but you might realize once it's all said and done and you're free of each other that your life is a lot easier and more enjoyable. Is toughing it out with him now just postponing the inevitable? Or do you really see a quality, *healthy* future with this guy?