I love her but does she love him?

[Bill_fickes]

Ok, so this is going to be quite long, but I really need some advice, so if anyome has any, please read through and post. Let me start off by saying that I am a male who's nearing 20 and engaged to a bautiful woman. She's one year older than I, and we've been together for 6 years, engaged for 4. We've never ever had an issue before with trust before. I had never gotten seriously jealous for more than a minute and niether did she. As of today, we've been battling just that for more than just a few months. It all started with me basically forcing the idea in that we needed to be more open, watching porn, maybe experimenting with a third in the bedroom and so on. We talked and talked, all the while we weren't having sex because she wasn't on the pill and we're only confident when using at least 2 methods like the condom and pill. So we would talk about all this, and her more than me would always be like, "I'm mostly excited to just have sex with you." Believe me, I was just as excited to have sex with her as well, but I think too much talking/ porn had my mind clouded as to what was real and what would really happen if we followed through with our convos. She never seemed as excited as I was, but we kept talking, because after reading so much online, we thought it might actually be good for our relationship, not that anything was wrong. We just tried telling ourselves sex was nothing but a feeling. It started with porn, to "learn new things". We sat down and took note of what we liked, but she would insist, even though iwould disagree with her, that penises arn't sexy, and especially in porn, they don't get her going. The notes were the only helpful thing we did. And after that we told ourselves we must be on the right track. I started asking questions and forcing the idea in of who we would actually do something with if we got the chance. Everyone got mentioned as a possibility, ranging from "should we find one online, or go with firends?" While discussing friends, of course the inevitable question came up, who would we pick. I brought up all her firends and she brought up all mine. It was just a discussion and at the time we both felt extremely jealous but didn't voice it. Through all of this, we were both jealous but never voiced it. Anyway, I became very jealous when my friends were mentioned, we'll call the main one, John. Before all of this in an unrelated note, she had had a sex dream with this guy, but it wasn't romantic and she told me because of how disgusted she was. This was before the talks. She said the dream was just a boring Sex dream where it was just staring up and it was extremely wierd having his face there, but no other images of him naked were there, she never even saw the bottom half. She's had these dreams before with my other friends before and its natural, I know, that's why I don't see why it would make me jealous. I know they have nothing to do with sex and I also know how the sex dreams go when its me in her dreams, which really is about every other night. But nonetheless, the dream came to mind when his name was mentioned. But as I painted vivid pictures of this guy naked and/or involved, she cringed, felt disgusted and asked to change the topic because she didn't wanna think of him like that because he's her friend and only a friend and he's also not very sexually appealing.

Later on, this all evolved into pointing people out on the street together. I was extremely jealous, and talking later revealed she was irate with jealousy too. We ended up, not knowing how jealous the other one was, coming up to each other on the same day and deciding we'd taken a wrong path and decided to turn away before we actually did something.

That's the background info, now this is where the problems seem to start. Have any of you ever had stupid thoughts run through your head when your mad? Like " man I wouldn't get like this if I was with so-and-so", but then 2 seconds later realize what u said and take it back because u realize how untrue it is? Well I'll term that as spiteful thinking to make things easier. Well I would get that for a while and I never said anything about it because I realized what I had done. I had simply reassured myself that iwas in a great relationship, because those thoughts would make me drop my anger and cherish what ihave. I'd realize within seconds how stupid I was being. Turns out she did this too, and after talking about it forever, it came out that she was thinking the exact same as me for those 5 pissy seconds. But, she had never done it before, so it was wierd, but she had the same resolution I did. "I'm in a great relationship because of how those thought actually make me feel; shitty. And thoughts of my fiance are amazing!" So none of this was talked over for a while because it wasn't a problem in either of our heads. But then the grillout came. It was just me, her, and john by the grill outside. Before we picked him up, her and I had been in a little argument. See by this point, I was really really jealous of john, although I had no reason to be, and I would accuse her of many stupid things like liking him or wanting him or stupid stuff like that. By this time, btw, her and I were having some of the best sex of our lives, having waited so long for medicare to kick through so she could get on the pill again. So anywho, we're on the way and here I am berating her, but not like in an avusive way. I don't want to be misunderstood, just basic insecurty questions like, "would u ever date him" and whatnot. She said no to that and all my other questions and tried tomake it obvious that she only ever wanted me.

So we pick john up and the atmosphere is a quite tense between susan and me, but john didn't notice. We get to our place and I go park the car while she and john head upstairs. I was so jealous, I held my ears to the door before I walked in, but they were just talking about me and susan, so no worry there. Well the night passes and she was by my side the whole night, so there was nothing to worry about right? Kinda. The next week I felt real jealous, but had kinda died down on the berating. We had been recently talking about marriage and how we could finally set a date now that fafsa wouldn't be affected by our marraige. But I have a bad dream about them running off together, and so I voice it to her. She seemed real taken aback, but assured me that would never happen. The next day though, I was talking about that dream some more and asking her questions. She then revealed to me that when I told her about my dream she was freaked, cuz she thought she saw john making the moves on her.talking later revealed that the look she got I've gotten from him before too and it really does look like a wierd come on sorta look, so I could inderstand why she thought that.


This is where the actual problem persists. When she told me, I kinda flipped that she had texted him without me knowing. She had asked him"we're just friends right?". He sent a big long text basically saying ya, I respect your'alls relationship woth a high honor, and I don't want to **** things up. She said thank you. When she told me about all this a few things were said. She accidentally said she had a crush on him. Turns out she was referring to those spiteful feelings, because she thought shehad somehow caused all of this by subconciously portraying something to him she didn't wanna portray. I asked her definition of crush and she said, "thinking of a relationship other than ours and being happy even for a second". Now that truly differs from my definition which is "thinking about somone constantly, ad wanting to know all about that other person in entirety. I looked up signs of a crush and as she looked through them, none of them matched him, but they all matched her feelings towards me.she said that when she said" crush" she knew it was the wrong word to describe those spiteful feelings, but for lack of a better term, that's what she deemed it. She never thought the word crush meant what I said it meant, because that was the definition of love, and she knew she loved me and she knew she didn't love john. I should be happy with that right? Now I'm laying this out mixed in with our convos after the fight and our comments during the fight. Make no mistake, there were alotta tears everywhere. When I asked if she had feelings for him, she nodded her head, but with real hesitancy, and started crying. Later on, asking her about that, she said she was in such a sad state and thought we were going to end that she said it to hurt herself and she knew it was a lie when she said it. But it's stuck in my head for some reason now a month or 2 later.

To me, after all the talking we have done, it seems like this was one huge miscommunication that only caused jealousy because jealousy was already there. It seems like I thought she was into him, and she thought he as into her, but she said she never thought she was into him. For some reason though, after all this, I still feel the need to berate her with questions. I know I'm crazy, but I just need to hear it from more people. I know I basically did this to myself, and I take account for that. But even though I did this to myself, I don't want to turn out like my abusive father, because this is the kind of berating he's put my mom through for 20 odd years, and it has led to physical violence between my parents before. Please help me fix my mind so I can steer clear of that road and just live, and love like we dud in the not to distant past. Things are great now, but I just want to stop feeling the need to accuse and ask qequestions. Can you women relate to her? It doesn't sound like she's got the hots for my friend right? Thanks you so much!

[Bill_fickes]

*bump* please, somebody help...

[Muiin1]

OK. WOW What an essay...

From what I'm getting here its more to do with your insecurity with your partner than any infatuation a girl might have. We can't help what strangers/friends feel towards us or our significant others - its life. However what is important is how we respond to them, whether ignored, humoured or encouraged.

What I'm trying to get at here is I think you should have a discussion with your partner about whether he feels his fields may be greener elsewhere.

[Bill_fickes]

I'm not sure what you mean at that last part. To clarify, me and susan are the ones to be married and john was the guy in question. I love her, I never want to leave her, ever! You don't understand how madly in love with this woman I am and how much she loves me. Even now, we still lay awake and talk about how great life is, this is just a bump and it's been hard telling myself that it's possible to accidentally say things and have no meaning behind it whatsoever. She told me if I left she'd follow me until she convinced me of the truth because she loves me so much, and that means a lot to me, but I'm not taking advantage of that, I want to fix this new problem I've got. I guess I know all my answers by this point, I guess I just thought she might of had feelings for this guy because she accidentally said a few things that just stuck. I just want help to get rid of these questions in my head so we can have a day without them coming out. I know it's me and I don't want to turn out like my dad. You'all don't think she had feelings for this guy? Bottom line question is can you relate to her, have you ever said something in a moment just to make yourself sad because you feel like you deserve to be dumped on?

[Chris0516]

Once I saw the part about forcing the watching of porn, I stopped reading.

[searock]

Once I saw the part about forcing the watching of porn, I stopped reading.

I stopped reading when I saw "I am a male who's nearing 20 and has been engaged for 4 years", LOL. But judging by your post it gets better... *heads off to read some more*

Ok, I've read it all... OP, I think you need counseling. You are obsessed by your jealousy, and controlling (forcing her through verbal manipulation to watch and actually enjoy porn even after she told you countless times she didn't want to nor did she like it, trying to manipulate her into "confessing" that she likes your friend, etc). As you said, you need to "fix your mind" before you can be in any healthy relationship (let alone marriage). The reason you are like this is probably the fact that you never had an example of how a good relationship should be like, because of the way your parents interacted when you were a kid. I really think counseling would help you a lot. Good luck!

[Bill_fickes]

I'm asking for help, not ignorant comments. All I wanted to know was that I was going crazy. And counseling is under way, has been since this came up because I knew I was in the wrong, but it seems like you all think I made her sit down and watch this with me, physically. Force was a bad choice of words because we talked about it, she saw my 'then' point of view and we tried it. that's why it actually says 'basically forced'. I feel i forced it in because it was my idea. we talked about wether it was something to try or not and came to a conclusion. No one was forced unwillingly into that. Niether of us had watched porn before that except me, but not since we got together 6 years ago. And about my age, you arn't the first to have doubts. But we grew up together in a town of 400 and then moved out together here in chicago and have been living together for nearly 3 years, so doubt our love as you wish, we'll be together for many years to come, because the happiness still hasn't stopped, and it never did. All that was on my mind was wether or not she meant it when she said she had feelings/crush for the guy, but its fairly obvious now that she's telling the truth about how she said the feelings part was just to hurt herself. The crush term was just a terminology miscommunication, as I'm able to see now. All I wanted to know was if any of you had ever said something purposefully to hurt yourself because you thought your life was over? That's what she told me happened. And I'm not the only one at fault here, we made the mistakes together and we're fixing them together, and we're still getting married. one bump in the road doesn't make me a controlling ass or her a dirty jezebel. Either way, thanks for the help.

[Bill_fickes]

When I asked if she had feelings for him, she nodded her head, but with real hesitancy, and started crying. Later on, asking her about that, she said she was in such a sad state and thought we were going to end that she said it to hurt herself and she knew it was a lie when she said it. But it's stuck in my head for some reason now a month or 2 later.

To me, after all the talking we have done, it seems like this was one huge miscommunication that only caused jealousy because jealousy was already there. It seems like I thought she was into him, and she thought he as into her, but she said she never thought she was into him. For some reason though, after all this, I still feel the need to berate her with questions. I know I'm crazy, but I just need to hear it from more people. I know I basically did this to myself, and I take account for that. But even though I did this to myself, I don't want to turn out like my abusive father, because this is the kind of berating he's put my mom through for 20 odd years, and it has led to physical violence between my parents before. Please help me fix my mind so I can steer clear of that road and just live, and love like we dud in the not to distant past. Things are great now, but I just want to stop feeling the need to accuse and ask qequestions. Can you women relate to her? It doesn't sound like she's got the hots for my friend right? Thanks you so much!

this is what i was asking about.

[searock]

You need to hear from other people that you are crazy? I don't think you're crazy, you just need some professional help to understand how a good relationship should be like and how to be less obsessive and controlling. You are still very young, so there is a good chance it won't even take long to get better.

I am not doubting your love for each other, I just find it weird that you have been engaged (engaged!!) since you were 16. People usually get engaged at least 10 years later. Maybe she is starting to realize that she is way too young to be bound for life to a man.

I think you should break up with her, because the way you relate yourself to her is unhealthy. You need to get help and get better, and after you've done that, you can get back to relationships.

[Bill_fickes]

I'm sorry searock, but breaking up is not an option. She loves me and I love her. Why would I break up with her over a miscommunication? this is seriously just the toughest hurdle we've come across, and in a relationship you come across bad times and that doesn't always mean to just up and leave. I've been with plenty of women, and I've never felt this way about anyone else. Breaking up was an option. we talked and tossed it over but neither one of us could bear that thought. You don't understand how much we relate to each other and how much of a team we are together. So maybe my parents relationship wasn't the best, I know that and I see that. That's obviously why I am here asking for help so I don't turn out like them. This is the only, and I mean only, instance where I have acted like my dad. This was truly a group mistake, not just mine. Personally, I just feel like I'm to blame for everything, and so my post came out like that, but I'm asking for help, not just a simple black and white, break up with her. By 'crazy' all i'm saying is that i wanted reassurance that I have nothing to worry about, and that I'm, in fact, driving myself mad. Obviously, within these posts, I have said a few things that were hurtful to me because I thought I deserved it, and all I was asking was if you'all have ever done that before. I'm not going to break up with this woman. We went down a dark path, but nothing happened but talk. we got together young and we had questions about sex, what was the real answer. those have been answered now. maybe most people get engaged 'like ten years later', but we didn't. I've known her all my life, and since day one, all we could ever think about were each other. like I said, all i want to know is if what she said makes sense. i mean if she didn't want to be with me, why would she lie to me just to stay with me? why would she tell me that she said it to dump on herself if it wasn't true? it seems like what she said about why she termed it 'feelings' has to be true because there isn't any reason to lie. She took it back after she had said it, and she said she was talking about the feelings in the air, like she was sensing john wanted more that she didn't, and that's what she was talking about. you have to understand being with someone and hearing that for whatever reason hurts. all I'm asking is for reassurance that what she said makes sense, and that I'm not manipulating myself to believe that. I feel like I may already have my answer just by looking at my posts and your replies, but what do you think? and once more, breaking up is not an option unless that was what she wanted. all i want is for her to be happy, and she tells me that she's never had any other feelings for any other man since she's met me. She swore on her entire family's lives, and especially her baby sister. we'd swear to God, but we're both atheist and that's how we show each other that we're not lying and we really sincerely, deep down mean what we're saying, judge on our ways if you will, but it is who we are. she's never felt so cared for and so happy, and she's also older than me, if that has any relevance... please, just all I'm asking is for reassurance that what she said makes sense, and that I'm not manipulating myself to believe that.

[Bill_fickes]

I found an article that really explained to me what was going on in her head. we're both prone to depression and it makes sense. but this site won't let me post links because i have less than 15 posts in total. so if you want to read it, type in "blaming yourself when you're down" into google and the first link is by forbes.com and says "oh, the guilt! Why you blame yourself for everything when..."

[searock]

I've been with plenty of women, and I've never felt this way about anyone else.

How can you have been with plenty of woman if you are almost 20 and have been with your gf for 6 years?!

Even if you don't break up, you still should get therapy. You say it yourself that you are prone to depression, and it's evident that you have trust issues, obsessive thoughts and mildly controlling behaviors.

And no, I wouldn't say I have "feelings" for someone unless I actually had feelings for them. Especially not to my boyfriend, whom I planned to keep.

[Bill_fickes]

so then why was it said? does it make sense that something like that could be said under the conditions in that article i pointed out? listen, I know I'm in love, that's all there is to it, and I know her. she's in her 20's and doesn't have any reason to lie. this isn't black and white like you seem to want it to be. the question, again, wasn't 'would you say you had feelings for someone if you didn't.' the question was, "does what she said make sense". about explaining why it was said. is there anyone else with any advice? I'm positive that what she said makes sense, I just want some reassurance.

[searock]

I have no idea why she said that, as I said, I would never say something like that unless it was the truth. So in my point of view, she said it because she meant it, and then took it back when it saw the reaction it provoked. I'm betting she is sick and tired of your jealousy issues and nagging. She probably tried to just tell you, in order to get it over with, but then regretted it when she saw your reaction and took it back. I don't know.

Anyway, you haven't answered my question. Have you really been with "plenty of women" even if you've been with this girl since you were 14?

[jetta86s]

Hi Bill! I say a lot of nice things all the time. I like a lot of guys in my office and I even say it out loud. The thing is at the end of the day I know where my heart is, no matter how beautiful or suspicious my words are. My partner knows me that much and we have been together for many years now. You said it yourself, its all in your head.