Unbelievable!!

[iamaninnocentma]

I'm not blaming you for what happened, but I can't help noticing how many men insist they were involved in a "good relationship" when their women clearly were not. It's hard for me to believe that there wasn't any sign along the way that maybe she wasn't as satisfied as you were. In your next relationship, I suggest you take these signs a bit more seriously. A lot of men tend to be dismissive of their women when they are unhappy, attributing it to PMS or moodiness, etc.

TBF 99% of the time it is pms or moodiness.
Wonder what HIA done to be forced in to counseling through the court system,lol. Only in america, crazy mofos. In my country the courts dont care if you cheat on your woman. As long as it doesnt involve sheep.

[Wakeup]

... You're a baaaaaad boy!

[vashti]

TBF 99% of the time it is pms or moodiness.

If it is true that 99% of the time, the fall of a relationship can be blamed on PMS (and I am not agreeing that is true), wouldn't you think that by now you men would have figured out how to fix it? And WHY do men insist they are in "good relationships" with women they find moody or PMS-y?

[iamaninnocentma]

umm. i was saying that pms or moodiness was responsible for womans unhappiness, not the reason that they cheated. Ill be careful what i say, because i sense you are experiencing one of the afformentioned conditions presently.

[IndiReloaded]

LOL Wakeup you are so rigid in your thinking on this. Have you been cheated on?

fwiw, I agree with you about cheating being wrong and *usually* its better to end the relationship. But, not everyone thinks this way. You are clearly of puritan NA/US origin, not from europe. They take quite a different POV on extramarital sex. Also, some partners are okay with discreet affairs but prefer 'not to know'. That probably doesn't resonate with your non-subtle mindset, but it works for some. Shrug.

btw CAPITALS ARE CONSIDERED YELLING in text etiquette. And I've learned that yelling rarely helps you make your point more effectively. Try bolding instead 'cmd-b' will do it.

[Wakeup]

LOL Wakeup you are so rigid in your thinking on this. Have you been cheated on?

No and well, I can say the samething to you but ask you: Have you cheated?

fwiw, I agree with you about cheating being wrong and *usually* its better to end the relationship. But, not everyone thinks this way. You are clearly of puritan NA/US origin, not from europe. They take quite a different POV on extramarital sex.

Yes, everyone should have a mistress/boytoy. I agree with open relationships as long as everyone is upfront and agreeing.

Also, some partners are okay with discreet affairs but prefer 'not to know'. That probably doesn't resonate with your non-subtle mindset, but it works for some. Shrug.

No kidding, but they are in agreement with it. It's NOT the same as cheating. Do you not see that you are compating apples to oranges with that statement?

btw CAPITALS ARE CONSIDERED YELLING in text etiquette. And I've learned that yelling rarely helps you make your point more effectively. Try bolding instead 'cmd-b' will do it.

YEA OKAY.. THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP *grinz*

[IndiReloaded]

No and well, I can say the samething to you but ask you: Have you cheated?

No, but I was very tempted once and chose not to. Some who know my situation even argued I had every reason. But it wasn't worth my self-respect nor other things I care about to go that route. So, I know exactly what its like to have ones feet held to the fire and walk away. Most here don't have that delightful experience, I suspect.

Yes, everyone should have a mistress/boytoy. I agree with open relationships as long as everyone is upfront and agreeing.
No kidding, but they are in agreement with it. It's NOT the same as cheating. Do you not see that you are compating apples to oranges with that statement?

I would submit that most couples, particularly women, don't want to discuss it. I wouldn't say europeans agree to it, so much as tolerate it. I think that women (and its usually women) who withhold sex from their husbands should agree in advance that its a 'cheatable offense'. Same goes for women and 'emotional affairs'. You would say they should end the relationship, but that's not always the best solution particularly when children are involved, Wakeup. It really depends on whether the couple can get their needs satisfied elsewhere without being uncivil. Sometimes the husband or wife doesn't want to meet their partner's need but still want to stay married. How do you reconcile that? By staying miserable and hostage to one person who won't come through in their responsibility in one area, but are perhaps great in others?

[Wakeup]

No, but I was very tempted once and chose not to. Some who know my situation even argued I had every reason. But it wasn't worth my self-respect nor other things I care about to go that route. So, I know exactly what its like to have ones feet held to the fire and walk away. Most here don't have that delightful experience, I suspect.

Good for you for maintaining your integrity. Not knowing your intire situ, I'll not say too much but I will say that if most here that though you had every reason, did they also tell you to leave if you felt you loved someone else or did they tell you to go ahead and cheat. I still maintain that there are no reasons, there may be justifiations but no reasons when you could leave. If you did cheat and he found out then you would likely have to leave so the excuse that those that cheat and stay for the children is yet another excuse. Shit happens, I'm not saying it doesn't but you can leave if you are not happy. One's children will survive and they are quite resilient when they continue to have two loving and involved parents who happen to live separately.

I would submit that most couples, particularly women, don't want to discuss it. I wouldn't say europeans agree to it, so much as tolerate it.

Well even if it's only tolerated, it is at least known about and accepted as part of the deal in many instances. Afterall we as a species were not meant to be monogamous. It is church that has dictated that we be with one and government that has dictated that we marry only one. Wasn't it King Soloman that had 6,000 wives (or something?) IMO I'ts not the act itself that is the worst of it but rather the continued deceit and/or pre-meditated coniving that is the unforgiving part. A one-off mistake could easily be forgivin (I can only imagine)

I think that women (and its usually women) who withhold sex from their husbands should agree in advance that its a 'cheatable offense'.

I think they should agree in advance that it is reason to open up their marriage. Not cheat Sometimes the women is withholding because like her husband she too is bored, not fulfilled and/or being taken for granted by a husband whose idea of foreplay is to say "get yourself wet and I'll put it in" lol (old italian joke)

Same goes for women and 'emotional affairs'. You would say they should end the relationship, but that's not always the best solution particularly when children are involved,

I believe that emotional affairs are what happen when we allow ourselves to cross our personal boundaries, we allow ourselve to become vulnerable to someone other than our SO. I suspect you're not unique in the emotional affair department. That's why I preach about personal boundaries, not entertaining one-on-one date like activities with opposite sex friends and communicating with our SO's with our "I" feelings.

Wakeup. It really depends on whether the couple can get their needs satisfied elsewhere without being uncivil. Sometimes the husband or wife doesn't want to meet their partner's need but still want to stay married.

Open relationship. Most won't suggest that though and it's not about fearing what their SO will do but rather they don't want to share, but want to be able to themselves.

How do you reconcile that? By staying miserable and hostage to one person who won't come through in their responsibility in one area, but are perhaps great in others?

You are in a partnership. This is about wanting your cake and eating it too which is totally possible if your partner agrees. If you know your partner won't agree to you stepping out so you don't ask for an open relationship then you are cheating so that you get your cake and keep it to.

I went through a short witholding period after the birth of our daughter. He asked to see others and i said that's fine, but when I get my mojo back,I get to do the same. Funny, we worked it out, he became more attentive, made sure I got some help with the babe occassionally and he courted me like he once did. I got my mojo back and subsequently learned to absolutely love Niagara Falls because that was where he took me to get me away from the daily routine of motherhood.

Perhaps we should change the vows to: I promise to forsake all others for at least five years then we renogotiate?

Cheers.

[Prime39]

She didn't cheat on me multiple times. And I agree that she was probably bored and unhappy! But why not just tell me the truth and put me out of my misery! I told her loud and clear. "put me out of my misery! Tell me I should loose all hope to be with you so I can move on with my life" But instead of telling me it's over, she says I need time to think. And I had to live with that hope until it crushed my broken heart into powder when I saw her with this other guy! Im convinced she wanted either to keep me as a backup plan, or she was too ashamed of her self to admit what she did! She cares so much about her reputation as a good girl. This is what tempts me to tell her off! And let everyone know what kinda girl she really is! I probably won't do that, but I'm just saying, she deserves it!

[IndiReloaded]

Good for you for maintaining your integrity. Not knowing your intire situ, I'll not say too much but I will say that if most here that though you had every reason, did they also tell you to leave if you felt you loved someone else or did they tell you to go ahead and cheat.

Interestingly none of the above. Someone very wise told me to consider that the reason I *thought* I loved someone else wasn't anything to do with him (since I really knew nothing of him in a romantic sense) but rather a seeking response to what was lacking in my relationship.

So, a more complex answer than simply 'stay' or 'go', Wakeup. In the end, it certainly comes down to this, but that's a lot of middle growth one skips out on if that's the simple POV that is taken. There are shades of grey that shouldn't be ignored to satisfy an arbitrary 'right' or 'wrong', I think, especially when it comes to hurting others or breaking up a family. JMO, of course. I realize others are more binary in their thinking.

[IndiReloaded]

She didn't cheat on me multiple times. And I agree that she was probably bored and unhappy! But why not just tell me the truth and put me out of my misery! I told her loud and clear. "put me out of my misery! Tell me I should loose all hope to be with you so I can move on with my life"

Prime, you are describing a paradox: a person with integrity would certainly 'put you out of your misery'. But, a person with integrity also wouldn't cheat. Understand? Its like expecting an apology from someone who doesn't think they did anything wrong--you'll wait forever (or it will be insincere). Which is why its *your* job to decide when you've had enough. People without integrity will take from you forever if you let them. Its up to you to set your boundaries in life.

[boobaa]

You sound butthurt. Someone cheated on you recently? Well, I can tell you, she will not cheat again. It's what you want to believe. She doesn't look like a bad woman-cheater type. She rather looks like someone who was unhappy and did a mistake by not ending the things first. Things aren't so black and white, I don't undertand why you people don't understand it. But you can believe whatever you want, I have no power to change your way of thinking. And vice versa.

ME? No.

You took things from the wrong end again. Please red my post again.

It is not a mans fault if the woman keeps lying of her happiness when she is actually not, while screwing around behind his mans back.


But that's how just most of the women are, and have always been. Part of that can be blamed on evolution, which took account our natural enviornment. Truth is, our enviornment has changed greatly, our evolutionary traits have not.

[oldskool83]

it happened, accept it, move on. someone who spend 4 years with you shouldnt of found sum1 else in that quick of time if they meant anything to you. women suck, men do also. deal with it.

[Prime39]

I hear you. But my point is that I know it was a good relationship because I was in it! Im not completely blind! But why should I have to learn to read signs? We talked marriage! We planned on buying a house! She did not communicate what she was feeling. Woman shouldn't speak so much sign language! And I truly believe she left something good, for something new and exciting! And I am pretty sure that excitement won't last long. I think maybe that's why she tried to keep me hanging on. And I just want people to know that doing that to someone is very cruel!! Especially when I kept asking for another chance, and asking what exactly I did wrong and never getting a straight answer! Until I saw her with this other guy! This is how I had to find out!? She should have just crushed my hopes right away if she was indeed so unhappy with me!

[Prime39]

Great point! It's a hard lesson to learn, but now that I've been through it I will never forget it!