Please advise !!

[viji]

I met a guy at church in May this year to whom I felt very drawn instantly. When I first saw him I thought he was single and in mid forties. I am forty. I introduced myself and we met twice again (in Sept) at various church events (not as date). But recently in a conversation he told that he has a son who just finished Masters. I found that he is about 57. He didnt speak of his marriage or wife. And I didnt ask either.

He doesnt wear his wedding ring and I really like his personality. Although I tell myself I have no chance since he is married, I wonder why he doesnt wear his wedding ring. I found his family pictures on his son's girl friend's facebook posted last Nov and they seem to be a happy family. Are they really a happy family or are they getting together only on occassions. If so why?

I am losing hope. I feel a deep connection with him. He probably never thinks of me in that way but he is always nice to me and everyone else as a good human being. He gives warm goodbye hugs every time we part. I long to see him every week and cant stop thinking about him. But at the same time I dont like to disrupt his family, i really like him and want him to be happy. How can I know for sure if he is happily married and not single. i am confused as he doesnt wear his ring. If he is single, I dont want to lose this opportunity.

I dont know him much, how can i know if he is single and available. I know i am much younger than him but still i like him for his inner beautiful qualities and wouldnt mind dating if he were single.

Also there is another problem. When I wrote to him to thank him for taking me around the city, he signed his reply mail as Blessings. I wonder if he is looking at me as if I was too young like a daughter or younger sister. I hope not. If he is thinking that way how can I change that to look at me differently.

Please advise how to proceed... I really like him for who he is, I will gladly walk away if I know for sure that he is happily married, but how will I know. I dont want to ask and ruin our friendship. If nothing works out I want to atleast maintain a friendship with this guy.

My question: When and why does a married man stops wearing his wedding ring. How much can I rely on this fact that he is single? How do I bring up this topic to him without ruining my friendship and sounding awkward.

Please advise

[Red Apollo]

Not wearing a ring means nothing. I've known several happily married men who just plain don't wear their ring. There is even a girl I work with who doesn't wear hers because it gets in the way. Easiest way to find out if he is married, is to ask him. Don't do it flat out, just think of a way to casually work it into conversation. You could ask him why he doesn't bring his wife to church for instance. Even if he figures out what you are up to, he will probably be quite flattered. You are 17 years younger than him after all.

[viji]

Not wearing a ring means nothing. I've known several happily married men who just plain don't wear their ring. There is even a girl I work with who doesn't wear hers because it gets in the way. Easiest way to find out if he is married, is to ask him. Don't do it flat out, just think of a way to casually work it into conversation. You could ask him why he doesn't bring his wife to church for instance. Even if he figures out what you are up to, he will probably be quite flattered. You are 17 years younger than him after all.

Thank you for your reply, so not wearing a ring doesnt mean anything !!! Hmmmm, So seems like I have no chance. Well, at least I am glad I met a really wonderful person with whom I can be friends.

The church we go to is not a traditional one, it is based on Indian Yoga so it is quite likely that she doesnt follow it. We have many families where only one spouse attends the church. But in any case, I could ask if his wife supports his faith or maybe say "you could bring your wife to one of the social events." But even then it is possible that he would just say she doesnt beleive in this faith and still not provide me any info about his marital status.

A little digging into details indicated that they both live in same city but in different houses. But I am not 100% sure about this. It could just be they each own a house in the same city. So this fact combined with him not wearing a ring led me to the think that he might be single. But mind is tricky, it tries to find reasons to beleive what you want to beleive.

Our first meeting was in Atlanta in May at a special event of the church when I first introduced myself to him. There is no such church in my hometown, I have to drive about 2 hrs to attend the closest church, which is in his hometown, so I went to church after nearly 4 months after our first meeting in Atlanta. That was the first time to visit that church for me and I was new to the city. There was a potluk social after services in a church member's house and he offered me a ride which took about 40 min and it is during this conversation that he told about his son and on the way back, he was talking about the nature nearby etc and I was quite ethusiastic about it and while describing he said I wish I could show it to you now...then I grabbed the opportunity and said, may be we could see it if it did not disturb your schedule for the day. So he took me around and we came back at 6.00 pm. we were hanging around almost for 4-5 hrs. When we got back I just shook hands, thanked and said bye. But he gave a goodbye hug when I was least expecting, but was welcome.

My question: May be I could bring up that trip and say "Thank you for taking me around. It was a nice trip by the way I hope I didnt disturb your plans for the day and that I didnt keep your wife waiting" Doesnt sound right.....first going out with a married man, second asking if I kept him away from his wife LOL. Any thoughts...

I am from India so sometimes I dont understand certain expressions. For example, I had a chance to tell him during my third meeting 10 days ago as to, when and where I saw him first, and how I felt like talking to him and so approached him to introduce myself before I left the church. He smiled and kind of looked away and said "Smooth" almost inaudibly. I dont know what that means. What does that expression mean in this context??? Next day he (was sitting inside the church) made a eye contact with me with a huge smile as I was walking out during a short break. I acknowledged it with a slight nod and continued to walk.

After the services when we were hanging around with few other people, someone approached him and started discussing about a project he was volunteering on and led him away. I was kind of waiting and hanging around to say goodbye to him, it took about 10 min but I waited, and tried to engage myself in a conversation with someone around me to make it look less awkward. After his discussion, he kind of sensed that I was hanging around waiting for him and kind of gave a laugh, probably was flattered. I just smiled and was waving him goodbye but he came over and gave a hug and a little peck on my cheek, so I guess whatever that expression meant was positive.

I guess he pretty much got a feel that I have a crush on him.... But I am not sure...I dont know if it is good or not. If he is single it is good but kind of awkward if he is happily married...

Further I look much younger than my age. People have told me I look like I am 30 or even less, so it means I look too young in his eyes for him to consider a dating relationship, even if he were single. In general do older men (here 57) like to date younger women (40 looking like 30, he doesnt know my age).

I will be going to church this sunday again and probably will see him there ...I dont know how to conduct myself ...any suggestions...I guess I will just be cordial and will just respond to his queries, step back and behave assuming that he is happily married, unless he tells something else.

It was kind of lengthy, thanks for reading patiently.

[viji]

The guy whom I was interested just revealed that he has been divorced for nearly 10 yrs. Further he likes me, not sure if it just as friends or more than that. How can I know that he likes me in a relationship that would lead to marriage.

Alternately, could someone advise me how to tell him subtly that I am interested in him in a relationship that would lead to marriage. Any suggestions would be greatly helpful.

Thanks in advance

[Cerby]

The guy whom I was interested just revealed that he has been divorced for nearly 10 yrs. Further he likes me, not sure if it just as friends or more than that. How can I know that he likes me in a relationship that would lead to marriage.

Alternately, could someone advise me how to tell him subtly that I am interested in him in a relationship that would lead to marriage. Any suggestions would be greatly helpful.

Thanks in advance

There is no way to possibly tell if there are signals that would lead to marriage - if there would dating would be a lot easier! I think you should date as you normally would, go out a couple of times, talk about what you're looking for in the future and see if you're on the same page.

You're asking the forum to consult a crystal ball for you, and I think witchcraft might be frowned upon in your religion.

[viji]

Thank you for replying. I think I didnt phrase my question correctly. What I meant is how can I change the relationship with him from a friendship mode to dating mode. We having been talking as friends, I was wondering if I should indicate to him somehow that I am interested in him in a dating relationship rather than just being friends or do I just continue to hang out with him without saying or doing anything.

The reason why I am asking is that he is much older than me (17 yrs older than me) and has a son who is probably in his late twentites or early thirties and I am 40 yrs but I look much younger and he doesnt know that I am 40 yr so he might be thinking I am much younger like 30 yrs. So I am afraid he might think that I am close to the age of his son and look at me as too young for him. He might therefore hestitate to bring up this matter, even if he considered me in that sort of relationship. We share same values in life and opinions and both of us are very matured, so I think he is the perfect guy for me. So I was wondering if there is something that I should say or do to let him know in some way that I am interested in him in a dating relationship so that it would make it easy for him. If so, how can I do that without being too direct or coming out as too strong or desperate.

Last weekend we went to see a new temple in the area and spent a 4-5 hours and had dinner together. He suggested that we may could go to a global market next time and to another temple. Seems like he likes hanging out with me, but because of the age difference I am a little confused what he thinks of me, just friends or in a dating relationship.

Please advise what to do...Thanks in advance.

[devonbrown]

Okay, this is going to be pretty complicated, so bear with me... If you want him to know you are interested in going out with him on a date, this is what you do:

Ask him out. Don't wait for him. Just ask him out. On a date. Specify it as a date. All of your worries about him he might be having about you. He might be thinking you don't want to date a 57 year old. So take the pressure off him and just ask him out. It will take the pressure off him and answer all your questions within minutes.

Good luck.

[Kaius]

When I was first married, I didn't wear my wedding ring at all because my skin is sensitive to metals. I never wore any jewelry.....no metal watches...not even glasses....
However I tell everyone that Im married, and whenever I meet a single woman at work, I talk about my wife and family. So not wearing a ring means nothing.

[viji]

@ Devonbrown:
Wouldnt that be too direct and be awkward if he isnt thinking of me in that sort of relationship. Is there a more subtle way? Thanks for responding.

[viji]

Thank you for responding. Actually he recently revealed that he has been divorced since nearly 10 yrs. So thats not a problem now. He also likes me but not sure if he thinks of me as just friends or in a dating relationship. The only hurdle is he might hestitate even if he thinks of me in a dating relationship because he is much older (17 yrs) than me.

When I was first married, I didn't wear my wedding ring at all because my skin is sensitive to metals. I never wore any jewelry.....no metal watches...not even glasses....
However I tell everyone that Im married, and whenever I meet a single woman at work, I talk about my wife and family. So not wearing a ring means nothing.

[Cerby]

@ Devonbrown:
Wouldnt that be too direct and be awkward if he isnt thinking of me in that sort of relationship. Is there a more subtle way? Thanks for responding.

This is what you want, to be direct. It won't be awkward if he is interested, and if he isn't, then you'll know for sure, right away.

Courage - Its not about being afraid to do something, its about doing it anyways.

[viji]

@devonbrown and @Cerby
Thank you for your advice. I think I might need a little more advice.
(1) Would it be too soon to ask him out or should I wait and meet him causally a few more times? We met at various church events only 5 times. In one of the meetings we were to attend a social event and he offered a ride and on the way back we had a discussion about nature and told a certain driveway is very beautiful and seeing that I was enthusiastic he said "I wish I could take you now", so I said lets go, so I dont if that would be considered as comming from him or from me by taking an initiative. I am saying this because I am not sure if I am taking the lead each time and looking as if I were desperate. In any case we went for the drive to see nature and spent about 3-4 hrs. In another visit we went to a temple. Actually this time it was I who told him that I was going to a certain temple and if he liked and had time he is welcome to join and he came, so this time it was from me too. And we spent about 5 hrs in visiting the temple and had dinner as it got late. However he mentioned that maybe next time we could go to a global market. Other meetings were just brief hello with a handshake and goodbye conversations ending with a friendly goodbye hug.

(2) I am new to dating so I dont know how to go about asking him out. What words to use and how to say- should it be by saying it directly in person (which is going to be very difficult for me) or handing him a written note in person of what I wanted to say and wait for his response or by email or by phone. If it is email or phone I cant get to see his facial expressions. And I dont know how to react if the answer is negative.

(3) How does the foll. sound:
If I am saying in person/phone, I want to keep it really short and say "(name), I really enjoy being in your company, and since you too mentioned that you enjoyed spending time with me, I was wondering if you would like to go out on a date with me. How about going for lunch this comming sunday after services"

If I am writing a note/email " (name), I really enjoy being in your company and I understand you too feel the same way. I know that I am not very pretty and that I am much younger than you but I really like you and for me age is just a number and is not important. I dont know how you feel about me but I like you for what you are and feel happy in your company. I know it may sound a little strange to you, but I was wondering if you would like to go on a date with me."

(4) Do I tell him my age and ask him if he is OK with dating a younger women. Do I ask if his son and ex-wife (with whom he said was good friends) be upset if he went on a date with me? Do I ask these questions at all. If I should ask these questions in what sequence I should ask and how to phrase my questions.

Please advise. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Cerby]

1) Its not too soon, you know him and thats enough. If you wait too long you could lose the opportunity to someone else
2) If the answer is negative just a simple "Hey, no problem" is more than enough to cover your letdown, then just casually walk away.
3) I like this phone call, direct and to the point, forget the letter, it shows too much emotion too early
4) Don't even mention the ex-wife and child, just leave this one alone.


When dating, simple is better early on.

[viji]

@cerby
Thanks for responding.

(1) I am kind of a shy person and asking him out on a date would be a little difficult for me, is there any other way that I can accomplish the same by being a little subtle? Any suggestions

(2) Do you recommend asking him on a date on phone or in person or a written note handing it to him in person? Ofcourse I will keep it short as I wrote in my previous post.

(3) If he says "Yes" should I take the lead in planning a event or let him do it. How do men generally prefer. I know the usual norm is for men to ask women on date and they plan the event. But here it is other way round mainly because I want to take the pressure off of him because he is much older and to overcome his hestitation to ask me out, fearing rejection thinking that I may not want to date a man who is 17 yrs older than me.

(4) If I should plan a event what would be appropriate. Lunch is possible as we usually meet for services at church. Do I include any other event after lunch? If so what would be appropriate? Any suggestions?

How about:
(1) lunch and driving out to see nature
(2) lunch and visiting an exhibition of ginger bread houses

Thanks in advance for your advice.