Dating two women... how do I choose?

[Dolmetscher]

Okay, the title of this post is a little misleading. I know exactly which woman I like better. I don't need help deciding. But here's the situation. I have been very casually dating this one girl for a little over two months. But during these two months, we have only been out 3 times. She is a very busy woman, with her job, dinners with coworkers, work related weekend trips etc etc. So, I barely get to see her. When we are together, we have fun. We have so many similar interests, and world view. We kiss each very good together. Similar sense of humor. It's nice.

BUT... whenever I call her, no matter what, she never actually just answers the phone. I mean, if we arrange via text that I will call her on Monday to "catch up" (that's how she always puts it), then when I call on Monday, she does answer. But like in 2 and a half months, if I just pick up the phone and call her, she is not going to answer. i will have to leave a voice mail. She will return my call; she always has, but it is always a day, or sometimes even two days later. I called her yesterday at 11:30 AM to see it she'd like to get lunch tomorrow. She returned my call at 11:45 PM ???, I didn't see she'd called, so she left a generic, "Just returning your call." voice mail.

So, anyway... I met this other girl. I like her too. She is fun. She is well traveled, and in general a cool girl. In fact, this girl is technically much prettier than the first girl that I like so much. But I don't care at all... I like the first girl more. So here is my problem. If girl #1 is who I really like, but she isn't interested in me enough to at the very least shoot me a text when I call and say, "Hey, I got your message, but I'm really busy with this project. I'll call you tonight/tomorrow." Then I don't want to get all attached to her and keep trying to call her, just leaving voice mail. It almost feels like she is dating several guys right now herself, and I am her Tuesday or Thursday boy.

But at the same time, I don't want to bring all this up to her, because no matter what, we have ONLY been on 3 dates. It's been two months, but it seems a bit early to start in with, "You sure are hard to get ahold of." kind of conversations. That will paint "Weak and Needy" all over my face.

What do you girls think? And please don't waste time trying to imagine what might be her situation. I am more interested in what you think I should do/think. Like, don't respond with, "She's probably dating other guys, and is a workaholic..." because none of us can know any of that, and I find that assumptions this early in the game are almost ALWAYS wrong. I am just asking, how I can make this girl know that I'd like to see her more, without coming across as a whiney boy who needs more attention.

I just don't want to waste my time. I'm a cool guy, and I don't want to spend another two months leaving voice mails.

[searock]

On your next date together tell her that you really like her and would like to get a bit more serious with her, to see where it goes. Ask her if she feels the same. If the answer is yes, bring up the subject about her being hard to contact - in a light, casual way.

[alicehardt]

All you can really do is be honest with the girl you like a lot. You don't see her much as it is right now, and it sounds like it's hard to get a hold of her. I would say, what could you lose at this point if you were open about it and she didn't respond well? Best case is she puts more effort into the relationship and pursues you more, worst case is she responds poorly and you move on to someone who has more time for you.

You also have to decide if you can handle this kind of distance and little communication in the long run. if she's this busy as is with her career, than this likely isn't going to change just because you guys are dating more seriously.

[Dolmetscher]

Hi Alice.... Thanks!!! I agree. I am 100% sure that I can handle that kind of distance. I actually LOVE this kind of distance. I mean, i love looking forward to seeing someone. I love making plans on Tuesday to see someone on Friday. Gives my week a nice energy of anticipation. My problem isn't her schedule. It is simply that we have not established any guidelines. For example, if I call, and you listen to my voice mail, I don't care how busy you are... you can take 30 seconds, to say, "Hi Got your message, I'll call you tonight." And then you call. I don't care if I only saw her once a week, it just starts to screw with my pride to call her and hear her voice mail pick up EACH and EVERY time. And knowing that it will be hours or days before she responds in any way... makes me feel like a puppy begging for scrapes to fall from her busy table. I'm a very busy man too. Just shoot me a text.

[searock]

...so what are you going to do?

[sadie_genie]

Seems like she isn't that interested in you. I am in no hurry to get back to someone who I don't have strong feelings for either.

I say, just give up on her. If she comes running back then you can start something with her.

[smackie9]

Who said you had to choose? lol

[Wakeup]

BUT... whenever I call her, no matter what, she never actually just answers the phone. I mean, if we arrange via text that I will call her on Monday to "catch up" (that's how she always puts it), then when I call on Monday, she does answer. But like in 2 and a half months, if I just pick up the phone and call her, she is not going to answer. i will have to leave a voice mail. She will return my call; she always has, but it is always a day, or sometimes even two days later. I called her yesterday at 11:30 AM to see it she'd like to get lunch tomorrow. She returned my call at 11:45 PM ???, I didn't see she'd called, so she left a generic, "Just returning your call." voice mail.

Where did you meet this one? She sounds married.

Why would you even consider someone for anything serious when she treats you like an option? I think people who want someone who obviously is showing them that they are not a priority have fear of commitment. You want her the most because you know you'll never really have to be vulnerable and commit to anything with her because she obviously doesn't care about you.

Look within and try a figure out why you want someone that doesn't even care if you ever call her again.

it just starts to screw with my pride to call her and hear her voice mail pick up EACH and EVERY time. And knowing that it will be hours or days before she responds in any way... makes me feel like a puppy begging for scrapes to fall from her busy table.

Too funny: Why in God's name do you keep doing it then? Why do you torture yourself. You must somehow enjoy being a martyr or said puppy begging.

Just how well do you really know her and about her personal life? Has she ever invited you to her home, introduced you to her friends?

Here's something to keep in mind: A woman that is into you, who wouldn't want to lose you; Will make time for you. She won't let your call go to voicemail but if she has to she will not wait over 24 hours to respond. She'll show you in actions that she wants to be with you. Even when she's extremely busy she will make time for you in a consistant and ethusiastic manner. Talking it out with this one IMO, is just going to be you looking like the puppy dog once again.

I'm a cool guy, and I don't want to spend another two months leaving voice mails.

Then don't. Don't leave her anymore and wait and see if she ever contacts you first. If she doesn't then you can stop wasting your time and efforts on this one, anyway. If she never calls you then she doesn't care and she likely never did ...

[MarieCee]

Date both if they are ok with it.
Otherwise, follow your gut feeling.

[Dolmetscher]

Alright, alright Wakeup... you've got my attention!

So you are one of those people who has made almost 3,000 posts on this website in less than 7 months. So, I get it. You are trying to be the brash and harsh voice of reason to all us love-drunk fools. I not only like it, I support and admire it. That being said... a quick word, if you would. I am a solid, grown man. I can handle it and can see your posts for what they are... your .000002 cents worth; your opinion. But I am sure that there are some people who come on this thing looking for real advise with situations that are hard to see clearly. And you saying things to them like...

She sounds married.
You must somehow enjoy being a martyr...

A bit dramatic don't ya think my friend? Did you read my follow up post just a few minutes later? She's not married, she is just absolutely swamped with work. But for you to go throwing garbage out there like "she sounds married..." come on bro! Grow up. That's like telling someone with a headache that it might be a tumor. And I've only been out with her three times. She has been 100% upfront and honest with everything. She told me that her professional life is really crazy right now. She told me that she is a very spontaneous person who likes to make plans, but doesn't mind switching them up on the fly. But that at the moment, planning ahead is something that she just has to do.

So, I feel much better about things. I have my answers, and I didn't have to ask a bunch of puppy dog questions, or really any questions for that matter. I think she just sensed my hesitance, and she explained. I've kissed her each time I've seen her. I hold her hand, and put my arm around her. I've told her that I enjoy spending time with her. She KNOWS that I like her. As far as I'm concerned, the ball is in her court. I'm not going to call her again until she calls me.

In other news. I went out with girl#2 again last night, and that was very nice. She is much less complex, and much more open with everything. Girl#1's not closed off or dishonest, but girl#2 simply talks a lot more, and has told me all about her best friends and her family, and how she feels about this and that and on and on and on... it's a lot. But it's nice. When I went to kiss her last night, she was glowing red with embarrassment like a school girl, but once we started kissing, she was very much an adult. It was nice.

So we will see.

But Wakeup.... like I said, 99% of what you said in your post was spot on, good content. But coming from someone with a lot of experience on internet chat boards, and counseling people in general, people who come here, come here because they are vulnerable and have made the step forward to ask for help. Tossing out major "What if....s" and harsh language like, "Only a fool would...." only serves to make YOU feel better for having blasted away a complete stranger on an internet board. It's YOUR ego that is benefiting. If you had said to me...

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Dolmetscher...
It sounds to me like this girl, for whatever reason, isn't showing you the same amount of attention as you are showing her. This is an imbalance, and has the potential for becoming an unhealthy problem for you. I'd suggest backing off, and maybe not even calling her again, just to see if she comes around. Who knows? It might work out great for you, or it might not. But at least then you'll know.
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Those three or four sentences SAY the same thing that your post says, but without cherry-picking apart my words with quotes, and gob-stopping language designed to "Wake me up".

This is just my .000002 cents worth.

But thanks for the post, at any rate. You took the time to respond, and I appreciate it.

Dolmetscher

[oldskool83]

I say you cant date as many as you want or can afford lol. At some point your gonna start to favor someone more then the others, if you have a gut feeling your prob right, switch things up and offer a different day to do somthing or let her call your. If someone never offeres to do somthing with you then they are only curious about you i feel. If someone interested they will say we should do this or we have to hang out again.

From what i read it seems your an option, or she does'nt totaly know what she wants and shes in the figuring it out but dont wanna be alone stage.

[Wakeup]

Too funny!

Those three or four sentences SAY the same thing that your post says, but without cherry-picking apart my words with quotes, and gob-stopping language designed to "Wake me up".

You said the three sentences yourself. However: If I had said them, like youl'd like me to have, you'd likely not take heed of them like you apparently have. Perhaps I've bruised YOUR ego by pointing out the (very) obvious in a straight forward and very obvious way?

In any event. You plainly see what is wrong with this situation that you want so badly. Up to you if you continue down the garden path or not. As Smackie pointed out, who says you even have to pick?

it just starts to screw with my pride to call her and hear her voice mail pick up EACH and EVERY time. And knowing that it will be hours or days before she responds in any way... makes me feel like a puppy begging for scrapes to fall from her busy table.

You said it "bro." Buck up buckaroo and quit giving her the time of day. Or: you can always keep on keeping on but learn to take what she gives ya. She's not going to suddenly become unbusy for you by the looks of things.

No matter how you say it.

[Dolmetscher]

I agree oldkool83...

Judging by her choice of words, I'd say I am an "option," but that I am an option that she IS curious about. I am still just an option, in that when I last called her, she was snowed under with work, and I asked her if she could take an hour break on a Sunday to let me by her lunch to take a break from the pressure. She said that she'd better not, because she really doesn't even have time to eat. But then she immediately followed that up with, "But we definitely need to get together soon. I'd really like that."

So, I am still just an option, in that I am not important enough to set some work aside... but she does want to let me know that she isn't just blowing me off.

I think I am picking up what this chick is laying down. I'm cool with it, for right now. If... in a week, once all this work stuff blows over for her, and her parents leave town, who are coming in for Thanksgiving... if it still takes me a 2 week call ahead voice mail to see this girl... then I think I will just consider that one dead in the water. I won't call her up and make some dramatic, "I ain't nobody's option!" speech. I will just take the hint and stop calling. This dating thing can be nerve racking, and it can be kinda fun at the same time. I still do wish that people (American girls, particularly) had a little more backbone to just be 100% honest, all the time.

Girl#2 that I've been talking about is from Russia. And she is like an open book. On our first date, she already told me exactly what she had expected, but that I am different than she expected, in a good way, and that she feels very comfortable with me. When I tried to hold her hand, she told me that she would like to hold my hand, but that things are different in Russia, and that since she barely knows me, it is strange. But then later in the date while we were walking and I made her laugh, she smiled and took my hand. She is an absolute open book it seems. I never once wondered what she might be thinking etc. Unfortunately, I like girl#1's taste, interests, sense of humor, world view etc much more. Maybe girl#1 will open up and be more transparent as time goes on. Or maybe it'll be dead in the water, like I said. Either way... I'm having a nice time with two girls. Who can complain, really?!?

[Dolmetscher]

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree Wakeup.

You seem to come from that sort of rigid military, "If I had said them, like you'd like me to have, you'd likely not take heed of them..." mentality. It's cool. It's definitely an approach. Some respond well. I find it cute that you seem to take at least partial credit for my understanding my own situation, when you say, "...you'd likely not take heed of them like you apparently have."

I enjoy a good disagreement, and I don't mind derailing this thread to discuss this with you, because this issue has basically resolved itself for me already, so... I feel free to divert the topic. At any rate, you seem to take my criticism of your tone and words choices as an offensive thing. I promise it is not. You seem to have an EXCELLENT head on your shoulder. You have obviously witnessed hundreds of poor schlubs on this site, and in real life, making mistake after mistake with women, and judging by your online profile handle "Wakeup", you seem to have a genuine interest in helping these poor batstards. I like that. I like it a lot.

My only suggestion is that you re-read your posts before you click submit. Take just a few more minutes to think of some alternative phrases that move someone forward instead of just try to be the old wisdom bell upside the head. For example, just from your last post to me:

1. Too funny! -- Your first words are agressive and demeaning.
2. ...this situation that you want so badly. -- I never said that I was about to jump off a building. You are ratcheting the tension up in this thread with words like, "...so badly." This is all just casual dating for me.
3. ...continue down the garden path... -- You seem like a smart guy. Why water down your points with juvenile colloquialisms like "Garden path"... I don't even know what that means, and it just, again, ratchets up the tension another notch for no reason.
4. Buck up buckaroo. -- Uhmmmm... really?

I do really like your tag line. "I will not enable you by telling you what you want to hear!"
This seems to be your mission statement, and sense of purpose on this site. Again, I like it. If everyone had a little more of you in them, then there would be less ambiguity and more serious conversation, and genuine perspective. BUT... telling it like it is, does not mean bringing in demeaning off-the-shelf catch phrases, insulting language like "too funny!, and buck up buckaroo." It makes you seem dumber than you are, and more like a frat boy who solution to everything is to "Stop your whining and let's go throw the damn football." Do you see where I'm coming from?

[oldskool83]

i dont think you should be internationaly dating, stick with women close to home.

i use the "NO FUK ON ME" deal. no one is to busy to eat, i work 11hrs a day and i still have free time like no tomorrow. Its an excuse, you need to learn to learn to look and read for them. If a girl gives me 3 they are done. No one is seriouly that busy, ive learned the hard way...no im the hardass. They make new women everyday, id find one made after the holidays who wants to get together with you.