Ex - bf / best friend overshadows current relationships

[wanderlustboy]

Hi folks,

I've posted about my query about big disparities in wealth, but I'm ever so slightly more curious to get some advice about my general situation. Sorry about the length of the post.

I've been in two long-term relationships; from 17 - 19 with my first bf, and then half-way through university I met my second boyfriend when I was 19 (by the way, I'm Australian, and both were Brits who moved out to Australia). We were together for a little over four years, from nineteen to twenty-three (he was 24 - 28)

We had a great time together, though I broke up with him almost two years ago; his job required him to spend a lot of time overseas (he'd be in country for four weeks, and then need to spend two or three weeks overseas, back for three weeks, overseas for three etc etc). He was also fairly secretive. I'm 100% sure that he wasn't involved with anyone else, and I learned not to ask too much about what he was up to outside of the time we spent together. Having said that, I loved him very much; I grew up while we were together, started to understand my sense of self, my identity.

After about four years together, I broke up with him to try to force him to spend more time in country; our lives were so inextricable, I thought he would come back to me begging for a reconciliation, but he never did. It backfired totally. He never indicated that he wanted to get back together.

Last September (2010), about a year after we broke up, I decided to move to London for a bit of a change, some excitement. Since I've been in London, I've dated a lot of guys (small fish in a big pond.. that kind of thing).He moved home to London in March (2011). But his being in the picture has caused all sorts of problems for me trying to form relationships.

We're easily each other's closest friends; we share almost identical taste in music, love each other's sense of humour, we love the same sports. We're physically close (in the sense that we'll fall asleep together in the same bed when he sleeps over mine or vice versa.. cuddle up a bit if we're watching a DVD). If he was open to the possibility, I'd get back together with him in a second. The problem is that he doesn't want to (at the same time, he's not in a relationship with anyonse else and doesn't seem to be interested in anyone).

It also causes problems with guys that I date when I introduce them, and after a very short period they really resent him and the friendship that I have with him.

How can I possibly proceed? Presumably there's no chance of having a romantic relationship with him again, but I absolutely could not bear to push him away or have a less close friendship. At the same time, I'd appreciate having a romantic life, not a platonic boyfriend and a string of romantic dates, as it were....

wlboy

[wanderlustboy]

Sorry to bump, keen for some advice.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

How can I possibly proceed? Presumably there's no chance of having a romantic relationship with him again, but I absolutely could not bear to push him away or have a less close friendship.

You're going to have to grow up, and make a choice. You can't have both. Right now you have a very close friendship with him; are you satisfied?

[wanderlustboy]

You're going to have to grow up, and make a choice. You can't have both. Right now you have a very close friendship with him; are you satisfied?

I'm not really satisfied; I'm willing to live with the pseudo-romantic relationship we have because I suspect, deep down, that he wants to get back together.

I suppose the problem is that, even assuming that there was no chance of us getting back together, I don't think I could bear to live without his friendship. And if I'm entirely honest, I'm not sure he could live without mine. We're very dependent on each other emotionally, which is why I cannot understand why we're best friends, why he'll cuddle up to me, sleep in the same bed as me, but the second I cross the line to, say, trying to kiss him, he pulls back and says we're not together anymore.

Particularly frustrating because he's not seeing anyone, and doesnt appear to be seeking any relationship, or even no strings attached sex!

wlboy

[BackUpOrGetStng]

While this friendship remains as is, you're not going to have much chance of developing a relationship with anyone else, and you don't deserve to either.

Would you want to be with someone like you if you were a guy?

It doesn't seem like you want to be with any guy but him anyway. I think cutting this friendship off for a while and seeing how life, free of contact with him is would do you a world of good, and would probably wake you up a bit. Try telling him that you want to get back together, and if he doesn't want that, then you two shouldn't speak for a while until you're over your feelings for him(this would mean several months). Then you have to stick to it, and ignore his contact. I doubt he'll take you back, since he's had ample opportunity. You seem like a complete codependent ****ing retard, so I'm willing to bet money that you've wasted my time by creating this thread, and I've wasted my time by responding to it with advice you won't take. Good luck.

[Wakeup]

I'm not really satisfied; I'm willing to live with the pseudo-romantic relationship we have because I suspect, deep down, that he wants to get back together.

I suppose the problem is that, even assuming that there was no chance of us getting back together, I don't think I could bear to live without his friendship. And if I'm entirely honest, I'm not sure he could live without mine. We're very dependent on each other emotionally, which is why I cannot understand why we're best friends, why he'll cuddle up to me, sleep in the same bed as me, but the second I cross the line to, say, trying to kiss him, he pulls back and says we're not together anymore.

Particularly frustrating because he's not seeing anyone, and doesnt appear to be seeking any relationship, or even no strings attached sex!

Why do you allow him in your bed, to cuddle you, to do everything that you did as a romantic partner except the sex? You enable him to be complacent and you also allow him to ruin any romantic prospects you do manage to superficially form. You are a co-dependend enabler who allows this man to be who he is with you.

Make a choice or suffer this fate until he has enough strength to be in a relationship and dumps you like a hot potato. You "cherish" this more than he does.
Or, so it seems from where I'm sitting.

Would you want to be with someone like you if you were a guy?

Op is a guy, no? No matter Op's sex... OP is indeed totally co-dependent either way.

It also causes problems with guys that I date when I introduce them, and after a very short period they really resent him and the friendship that I have with him.

If your "friend" respected you at all he'd realize that and he'd back off instead of sabotaging things for you. You're co-dependent and don't have the emotional maturity to leave on your own so you'd think he'd ball up and take the lead here so you're not suffering like you are.

[wanderlustboy]

I doubt he'll take you back, since he's had ample opportunity. You seem like a complete codependent ****ing retard, so I'm willing to bet money that you've wasted my time by creating this thread, and I've wasted my time by responding to it with advice you won't take. Good luck.

Wow, life must be so easy to navigate when you have perfect wisdom, and can call people "f***ing retard[s]" for having doubts, and not being perfect like you. I suppose mere mortals like myself really should be extraordinarily grateful that gods, like you, who have no weakness, and no need to reflect whatsoever on their own faults, deign to come onto message boards to dispense their wisdom to mere retards like myself.

wlboy

[wanderlustboy]

Why do you allow him in your bed, to cuddle you, to do everything that you did as a romantic partner except the sex? You enable him to be complacent and you also allow him to ruin any romantic prospects you do manage to superficially form. You are a co-dependend enabler who allows this man to be who he is with you.

Make a choice or suffer this fate until he has enough strength to be in a relationship and dumps you like a hot potato. You "cherish" this more than he does.
Or, so it seems from where I'm sitting.

I think it might be somewhat easier for me to work it out if he wanted to continue the way things were, while he went out with other people, and objected to being in relationships and dating. But it's just the other opposite; he has no objection to me seeing other guys. I go out with other guys, dating and more, and he doesn't object. There's something about his demeanor and manner that seems to me as if he really wants to be together, but just can't get it together enough to ask for it, and so we carry on this pseudo-romance while I go out with other guys.

I think that after having spent four years, the vast majority of my adult life, and most of his, together, you have a fairly good sense of the other person's desires, and a very strong sense of loyalty and attachment. Shortly after we broke up and he declined to get back together, I decided to move o/s to London to pursue my career and my own life. I didn't ask him to follow me over here. I get the sense that he *needs* me, in some way. It's difficult to describe. If that's the case, I don't think I could deny him after all he did for me when I was young and impressionable; helping me to understand who I was, develop my sense of self etc etc

Op is a guy, no? No matter Op's sex... OP is indeed totally co-dependent either way.

Yes, we're both guys.

If your "friend" respected you at all he'd realize that and he'd back off instead of sabotaging things for you. You're co-dependent and don't have the emotional maturity to leave on your own so you'd think he'd ball up and take the lead here so you're not suffering like you are.

He's certainly not consciously sabotaging things for me; he really wants to continue things as they are, but for some reason doesn't want to engage in anything more with anyone it would appear (and he could easily get into another relationship; he was always "the good looking one", as it were). It's like there's something wrong with him since we broke up, and he's not capable of pursuing a sexual relationship, with anyone; he encourages me to go for it with other people, because he can't do the deed himself (imho).

I don't know; having spent six months not seeing each other at all, it made me realise that he's my (platonic) soul mate, my best friend. I guess it's an issue of whether it really will be anything more, and if it won't (which is 99% probability), how to deal with it in relationship to having a normal romantic relationship with someone without ditching him as my best mate.

(Just a quick caveat; we can't just walk away with no contact at all, for reasons other than emotional ones, btw. We have joint assets that we haven't liquidated for very good financial reasons)

wlboy

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Did I strike a nerve???


My faults are actually the reason I come to this board.


Didn't see anything else in my post you liked?

[wanderlustboy]

Did I strike a nerve???


My faults are actually the reason I come to this board.


Didn't see anything else in my post you liked?

Some parts. But I suppose when you speak in terms of deservedness, or lack thereof, and of people being "f***ing retards", it does tend to be ever so slightly alienating.

I would expect that kind of blithe insoucience from the kind of person that has never had to live with the ugly compromises and withering disappointments of real life. It's because I (would think) I possess some degree of self-reflection that I can recognise this situation is far from ideal.

By all means, give some advice. But when you act like you're living on some higher moral plane, it does make you sound like an utter gobshite (it's English slang.. urban dictionary will englighten you).

So, if I entirely ignoring the worthless parts in your post, I'll address the other things you said.

It doesn't seem like you want to be with any guy but him anyway.

I'd love to have a real relationship with another guy; it's complicated by the fact that he's my best friend, my platonic soul mate, and that frankly I haven't met anyone that really measures up to him; in terms of intellect, sense of humour, self-assuredness.. someone that challenges me, that gives me the sense that I'd actually grow and change in a relationship with them.

I think cutting this friendship off for a while and seeing how life, free of contact with him is would do you a world of good, and would probably wake you up a bit.

We haven't been in a relationship for a fair wihle now (almost two years), and we had very little contact for six months when I moved to London. Our friendship sparked back up when he moved home to London in February (his home.. he's a Brit, I'm Aussie).

Try telling him that you want to get back together, and if he doesn't want that, then you two shouldn't speak for a while until you're over your feelings for him(this would mean several months).

I can live with not being in a romantic relationship. I don't want to give up our friendship; no one else really understands me like he does, who can (as hackneyed a cliche it is) finish my sentences, who I can always go to when i've been murdered at work, or had a bastard of a date. Someone who will always take my calls, or invite me up (and vice versa) when I'm drunk and maudlin. Someone who loves cricket as much as I do, or jump on a piano and belt out Goodbye Yellow Brick Road convincingly, or who remembers my 21st birthday party... these things become even more important when you're 12,000 miles from home.

Then you have to stick to it, and ignore his contact. I doubt he'll take you back, since he's had ample opportunity.

I can live with that. I just don't want it to consign me to eternal singledom. Surely there is a happy medium between entirely cutting off contact and being in a romantic relationship.

You seem like a complete codependent (and the rest of what you said)

Yes, he is very close to my heart. I don't think it's entirely bad to have someone with whom you share a history, who you love dearly (in whatever sense you want to take that), who you could trust entirely and without reservation. I know Americans tend to be very individualistic; I'm not sure that "codependency" (probably a vastly overused term often deployed by people without psychological qualifications) is the worst thing that could happen. I'd rather be imperfectly codependent than entirely alone.

Hopefully it doesn't come down to that rather unattractive choice.

wlboy

[Wakeup]

I can live with that. I just don't want it to consign me to eternal singledom. Surely there is a happy medium between entirely cutting off contact and being in a romantic relationship.

You know there is and you likely also know that all you have to do is to stop the touch-feely, pedestal putting, personal and relationship boundary crossing activities with this man so that he does not alienate your romantic prospects.

No one, hetro or homosexual like it when their SO puts their friend's of the opposite sex (or in your case, same sex) ahead of them. You need to give up some of the things you do with your "friend" in order to nurture your budding romantic attempts. He doesn't respect you and your dates and you don't respect you and your dates when he comes first. Back off the time spent and the cuddle bitch activities.. it's disrespectful to everyone involved and it's dysfunctional as hell.

[wanderlustboy]

You know there is and you likely also know that all you have to do is to stop the touch-feely, pedestal putting, personal and relationship boundary crossing activities with this man so that he does not alienate your romantic prospects.

No one, hetro or homosexual like it when their SO puts their friend's of the opposite sex (or in your case, same sex) ahead of them. You need to give up some of the things you do with your "friend" in order to nurture your budding romantic attempts. He doesn't respect you and your dates and you don't respect you and your dates when he comes first. Back off the time spent and the cuddle bitch activities.. it's disrespectful to everyone involved and it's dysfunctional as hell.

Ha. Cuddle bitch. One for me to urban dictionary. I take your point.

To be entirely honest, I'm utterly terrified that nothing will seem as special, or unique, in comparison. Nothing is every boring, or pedestrian, with Andy. He has an extraordinary ability to make you feel like you're the only person that matters.

Clearly, I'm not doing myself any favours, and I'm being a bit of a prick to the guys I'm dating. I appreciate the way you put it; perhaps the kick up the arse, if I can put it in those terms, that I needed.

wlboy

[Wakeup]

You know what you've got to do in order to keep your friend and maintain a romantic relationship. Don't let him interfere with that part of your life anymore if you want a sexual soul mate to go along with the platonic one you have with him.

Getting your personal boundaries and your relationship boundaries in place and having the conviction not to cross them or allow him to cross them is the first place to start.

Good luck.

[wanderlustboy]

@wakeup

Bit of a development; I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

So I spoke to him about the situation, I thought it would be fairly simple to explain to him that we were kinda crossing boundaries, that it was making things a bit difficult for me with guys I was dating (I didn't mention that it was confusing the hell out of me and causing all sorts of irreconcilable feelings).

It was kind of simple in the sense that he said sure, that we would stop the cuddly, physical contact, DVD and thai, let's get nostalgic about things that happened when we were together thing we had going on. But he insists he didn't mean to make things difficult for me with other guys, or send romantic signals; he said understood what it is like to be 12,000 miles away from home (of course, that was the case when he was living in Aus when we were together, and now for me that I'm in London where he hails from), that he thought I might find the familiarity in comforting (which I do).

An example was my birthday 2 months ago; he was the one who organised the party, made it memorable, filled the place out a bit as I don't have a huge circle of friends over here yet. I'll be spending Christmas with him and his family as we're reasonably close and it sure beats sitting at home by myself. It really is probably fair comment on his part to point out that I have been perhaps slightly needy, and he obliging of my emotional and social needs.

I really want to convey to him that I appreciate everything he's done, and the sentiment, and that I value his friendship above any other, but that things really need to be a bit less intense and relationship-like. This is what I thought I said to him, and thought it was fairly straightforward; however, he did look a bit wounded by it, and clearly felt like his actions and (and, by implication, motivations) had been mischaracterised.

Wondering whether I should be reflecting more on my own behaviour and needs before looking at his behaviour and motivations? After all, I was quite happy for this to go on (having an ulterior motive), whereas, if I take his explanation at face value, he felt like (and in certain cases clearly was) he was filling a social and emotional space that would be filled by my family and closest friends in Aus.

wlboy

[Wakeup]

Bit of a development; I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

Well, this is more about You than it is him. You are the only one that you have control over so it's up to you to be the strong one and quit with the cuddle stuff and the crossing of relationship boundaries when you, yourself are dating. Surely you know by now what causes your dates to exit stage left when they see how you and your ex are still very much emotionally entagled with one another.

It's up to you to treat your ex like you would any other platonic friend and not like a lover. You see? He may have been filling an emotional void but I'm quite certain you don't interact with your family/other friends like you two interacted. He, if he knew what a relationship/personal boundary was would understand that most romantic prospects would not approve of yours and his behaviour and he would not allow either of you to cross these very fundamental boundaries that most romanitic couples keep in place in order to maintain their integrity, loyalty, monogamy.

He's explained his side of things, you've explained yours. Now you just need to emotionally distance yourself from him if you ever want to have a realationship that entail both an emotional and a physical connection with someone else. No more cuddle bitches. Get you some personal boundaries too that you won't cross yourself and you'll not allow anyone else to cross either and, should they try you'll know enough to say "no thanks."