Getting to know women you barely know (building rapport)

[lucacoleman]

How about asking her out for some drinks then leave your number. So in that way they won't get into trouble because they're at work and you can still have some sort of connection with them. If they are interested, then they have your number. If not, then you are on a clean slate.

[surfhb]

The things is you need to do some serious work if you plan on asking out strangers on the street. This seems to be your motive here. See a nice girl at a coffee shop? You better be ready to approach them with some game and be prepared to be rejected big time! From there you go on to the next ...numbers game.

Had a friend...we'd go to Costa Rica for a month in the summer. After surfing in the morning, he head down the beach asking every single girl he'd pass...." Hi...how are you? Do you want to fuhck?" He probably sleep with 3 girls a week doing this. MY point....its all a number game.

[richardwordoff]

MaidenMinx: well, not being particularly adept at telling if someone is interested or not is a problem, but not knowing how to go from approaching and talking to women to asking them out. I've tried plenty of different approaches, and basically the conclusion I've come to is that women aren't too keen on doing much of anything with you unless you know them somewhat. Most of my questions are presented in the post above (my whole approach about chatting over facebook or email or something to become not a stranger seems to have been shot down so I'm mostly asking about lunch dates to get to know women now). And no, I don't have any problems with women being waitresses, cashiers, etc. I'm a upper level college student, most people have menial jobs.

lucacoleman: i dont think you've read the topic. I don't drink and asking a near stranger out for drinks has a very low success rate.

surfhb: I haven't said anywhere that what I want to do is go around asking complete strangers on dates, and especially not walking around asking strangers to have sex with me. In fact, I've been emphasizing the fact that I'd prefer to actually try to know women (talk to them a few times, have casual lunch dates, etc.) before asking them out on a date because most don't seem to big on the hooking up with random strangers idea. If they do there's a good chance they've got STDs and/or are idiots for being so trusting of random strangers. And if you go around asking strangers that all the time you're probably going to get a reputation as a horny douchebag or a creep.

[Yet another guy]

surfhb: I haven't said anywhere that what I want to do is go around asking complete strangers on dates, and especially not walking around asking strangers to have sex with me.

He was telling you about his friend who has different motives. Try using some imagination. You can easily make use his strategy by asking everyone if they would like to be your friend or whatever it is that you want.

I've been emphasizing the fact that I'd prefer to actually try to know women (talk to them a few times, have casual lunch dates, etc.) before asking them out on a date

Isn't the point of going on dates with women to get to know them? Why do you prefer to do that beforehand?
Also, a word of warning. If you get to know someone in just friends capacity and start to like her, it's very likely that you've fallen into friend zone and won't get a chance to date her even if you wanted to.

[HeartIsAching]

Perfect. Or tea. Not drinks, which is an evening event and might turn some women off. Same for dinner, unless an obvious rapport has been established.

If she is seeing someone, or just not interested, this type of casual ask allows both ppl to save face if she declines.

Which is basically what I meant... but the OP seems more inclined to find excuses not to rather than grabbing his nuts and making a play.

[Wakeup]

the whole point is to get some way to communicate with her that SHE feels comfortable with. A phone number is probably the absolute MOST uncomfortable way to communicate with someone you barely know.

Have you considered a dating site? Do you think you'd actually have the nutzzzz to ask someone out or for their telephone number after a few emails and a feel that you've connected through the written word?

In my experiences, women don't give out phone numbers to strangers.

* Would you kindly give examples of where you, as a "stranger" and in your experience you have been rejected for asking for a telephone number?

[richardwordoff]

Yet another guy: yes you would think that, but at least from what I've observed personally women aren't too receptive to dates if they don't know you (college age women; older women may be different). And yes, I think you're right about the friend zone too. She has got to be comfortable around you enough to think you're not a psycho or a stalker but how do you make her comfortable without trying to be a friend first?

HeartIsAching: Not really an excuse, more like a question. If you ask a woman to get coffee or tea (or alcohol if you want to be so bold; lot less casual than the other two) and then when you're at the diner/coffee shop/wherever are you just going to show up and then not get anything? When she asks you why aren't you getting anything are you going to say "oh, well I don't really like coffee/tea/whatever". That's besides the point though, basically you were just saying to ask for some casual activity (lunch for example).

can skip to this >>>
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I don't really have a problem approaching to/talking to women. I can start small talk with a woman just about anywhere. Sometimes I can't think of anything to say, but that isn't too often. To give an example of what just happened today: I went into a gas station to get a snack and I noticed a good looking woman filling up her tank. She came back to the drink area and I asked her if she was glad summer classes were over. Ended up talking for a couple minutes, got her name, what her course of study was, etc. She said "nice meeting you" and then we parted ways.
So, my problem isn't not having the confidence to talk to them, but transitioning from just talking to getting a casual date or something of the sort.

If the woman is a waitress or hostess or cashier at a place I go to often I'm alright with asking them for a lunch date if I've talked to them three or four times, but if it is a woman like in the gas station example what the heck do you do there? There is a good chance you might not ever see her again, but even asking for a lunch date in a situation like that seems like it would come off as creepy/pickup artist-like. And I would say asking for her to be your facebook friend or something very non-threatening where you could at least have some contact with her again would make you sound like a spineless wuss.

I've already posted the questions I've got earlier, but they still haven't been answered. Say you ask a woman out for something casual, "well, hey, what do you think about going to get some lunch tomorrow and talk some more? (at the end of a short conversation)". If you're not supposed to ask for contact information if they're working (going back to service industry example) then do you just tell them when and where and hope they show up? What if something happens and you're going to be late/not be able to make it (or vice versa)?
If you have a successful lunch date with them, what do you do then? Keep going on lunch dates, 3,5,10? before you talk about doing anything else? When do you get a phone number during the lunch date?

My problem in general is just not knowing what to do with women once I decide to ask them out or once I've had one date with them. The only activities I really do are weight lifting, softball, reading, video games, movies. Half the time there isn't even anything good on at the movies, let alone things that are gender neutral and you can't ask women to come watch something at your house (that is something you do with your girlfriend, not a date). You can't have a woman go train with you or play softball with you (even if she would, I wouldn't be good company doing those activities because I'd be serious and focused on them) and you sure as hell can't ask a woman to read or play video games with you without sounding like a total damn loser (yes, I know, there are casual fun games you *could* play, like some Nintendo stuff, but again, this is a "hangout" activity you do with a woman that is already your girlfriend).

just a couple examples of what has happened before, but reading it isn't necessary to respond to this post adequately >>>
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I remember one particular time when a woman was been interested in me and I asked them to just "hang out" with me without anything specific in mind. I basically stumbled around thinking of things to do and ended up looking like a doofus. We went to a coffee shop and talked a little, but the strong smell of coffee actually made me nauseous and they didn't have anything there I could stand to eat. So after a while of this awkwardness I suggested we leave and do something else. Neither of us could think of anything (was a Sunday morning so nothing was open) so I, I shit you not, said let's play Super Mario Bros.. This was a couple years ago, and I think I'm a little better now, but still, I'm terrible at this.

Also, a similar thing has happened with people that are just my friends. I went out of town to meet a friend of mine from high school and when I got there me and him couldn't think of anything to do and were bored out of our minds. I basically drove two hours there for no frigging reason.

[Wakeup]

I think you think too much.

[MaidenMinx]

Darling, I think you are over thinking this.

Honestly if you had said to me "let's play super mario bros" I probably would have said sure.

Ok, places. Are there any nice parks where you live, or any other places to take a stroll? Walking is a wonderful past time. It gets you outdoors and moving and while you're moving your body your brain is nice and active, meaning conversation should come easily, and if it doesn't there should be plenty to inspire you to talk about or enough to look at to keep silences comfortable. I honestly at this point can not think of a better suggestion for you at this point.

How to move on from casual convo... You have to stop worrying about looking like a doofus, or a weirdo. In your gas station example you could have followed up with "I have enjoyed our chat. Is there any chance we could have another?"

[IndiReloaded]

Sunday morning? How about visiting the local farmers market (or equivalent). Or how about buying the Sunday paper and going to the park to fill out the crossword puzzle together? Anyway, you seem to think you are the only one who needs to provide entertainment on a date. The girl can be creative too.

What Minx said about asking for another chat. Good stuff.

[MaidenMinx]

Oh, and, when I said do not ask someone for their contact info while they were at work, that was when you were asking about asking for an email address or the like to get to know them. If you have already established a 'date' getting contact info is no longer weird. It would be weird not to do it.

I know it's all contradictory and confusing. I really do think you are over thinking this. I would suggest starting to learn how to listen to your instinct. If your gut says "go for it!" do so and don't worry about coming off as odd or weird. Also, if you are feeling awkward or worried about becoming bored or boring there is no problem saying "Gee, I feel a little nervous today. Please don't hold it against me." She may giggle and tell you she's feeling nervous too and strangely enough that can dissipate nerves.

Oh and one more tip, even though you said there is rarely anything on at the movies, movies make a bad first (or early) date. You are sitting in a dark room staring at a screen. Not very conducive to getting to know someone.

[richardwordoff]

Yeah, sure, I'm probably overthinking it. I suppose it just makes me feel like I've got my crap together if I feel like I've got a standard approach and a good idea about some general guidelines. I guess it is more difficult for me since I'm about 23 and I've never had a girlfriend. Also, I've probably only been on three or four really casual "dates" before and they all turned out rather crappy. I honestly don't know what the deal is because I don't think I'm flat out unattractive, I'm not really shy and I don't have problems talking to people. I do gravitate towards introverted activities though.

MaidenMinx: She did say yes. However, I didn't go over the entire story in detail. It was basically me stumbling around making a fool of myself for a few hours. That girl never had anything to do with me again after that. I actually worked with her and when I was at work and didn't have to think of things to do I was fine. I could make sarcastic jokes about things that had happened, chat when there was down time, etc. but when I had to think of things to do outside of that I blew it.

-- Things to do... take your park example. Normally I would never do anything like this. That stuff usually bores me straight out of my mind. How would you have an interesting time with a woman if you're doing something that bores you to tears? I'm not shooting down your suggestion, I'm just saying the reasons why I don't suggest these sort of activities. The other issue is knowing what activities are appropriate at what level of a relationship. For the walk example, is that a casual first "date" kind of thing, something you do with a girlfriend, something you do a couple hangout sessions in?

-- My "gut" has told me to do some pretty sketchy stuff before...

-- I suppose you're right about the movies as an early casual date, but I at least feel comfortable because that is something I normally do. You can't really talk a whole lot in a movie but I seem OK at making sarcastic remarks about things in the movie or at least just general comments. In fact, I actually watched a movie with that girl from the Sunday morning example and it turned out well because, like I said above, I was comfortable and able to make interesting and/or funny comments.

-- I'm not necessarily worried about being a doofus/weirdo as much as I'm worried about coming off as a pickup artist, extremely desperate loser or stalker.
-- Your example on what to do with the gas station example woman sounds like a great idea.


Anyway, let's get this answered before we move on >>>
If you have a successful lunch date with them, what do you do then? Keep going on lunch dates, 3,5,10? before you talk about doing anything else?
Obviously some of this you have to determine yourself by how you feel things are going, but I'm just looking for general guidelines.

[IndiReloaded]

Have you tried your local meetup.com site? I'm not sure what you are into besides gaming, but there must be something you do besides reading and playing computer games. If not, you should probably get out more and just meet people and not worry quite so much about dating.

What are your interests? What kind of books do you read? Are you a geek? Are you working or going to school? There are lots of meetup groups for things like that.

[url=http://www.meetup.com/]Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup[/url]

[richardwordoff]

IndiReloaded: "The only activities I really do are weight lifting, softball, reading, video games, movies." I'm a geek, but not your stereotypical awkward guy that can't carry on normal conversation with people. I'm a video game and exercise geek, uncommon mix I know. Thanks for mentioning it, but I don't really think I'd care much for this "meetup.com" site you're talking about. I don't really need friends or more things to do, there isn't anything lacking with what I'm doing right now, with the exception of some occasional female company that is.
"If not, you should probably get out more and just meet people and not worry quite so much about dating." Ha, is it that bad?
What do other people do? All it seems like other people do is go out to eat and go to the bar...

[MaidenMinx]

A question I need to ask is, how often do you find shared silence awkward? The reason I ask is to gauge how comfortable with yourself you are. I'm wondering if your nerves are putting off your potential dates.

I would also like to stress that your ability to start small talk is such a good start. It really is. Focus on the things you are doing well. And don't worry about looking like a pick up artist. If you have managed to have a chat with a stranger, chances are she wouldn't mind being picked up. Take the risk.

Learning to enjoy things that bore you is a good skill to learn. Yes going for a stroll is a little on the boring side but the walk is not the point. The point is finding somewhere neutral you can talk (I really like Indi's suggestion of doing a crossword in the park). If you are in a park there should be plenty to comment sarcastically upon (sarcasm is something to be careful with. Too much sarcasm comes off as cynicism.) and if there isn't, have some stale bread on hand to feed the ducks with. These simple activities build closeness as well because often these activities are done with family members as a child so can bring up those feelings again.

When are lunch dates no longer appropriate? I personally think around 3 of these casual lunchtime or morning dates before you try moving up to dinner. Any more than that, I believe you run the risk of being friend zoned. Unless you are friends with the girl already any less may seem presumptuous.

Learning how to trust your gut. First thing you have to learn the difference between is the 'go for it' sensation and the 'get the hell out of here' sensation. One makes you nervous, the other giddy with anticipation. The rest is trial and error. Note how you feel before you do something and what happens after. That will help you find the difference between nerves and anticipation.

I wish I could say 'follow steps 1, 2 and 3 and you will get the girl'. I wish I could give you the right script. Unfortunately life isn't that easy.

You seem like a good guy. Trust that that is enough.