At an impasse...

[celestina]

If that were true, he'd have been gone at 3 months.

At 3 months, he loved her at 8%...and thought that maybe later, he would come to love her more (like near 100%) so that they'd be able to have sex without no one getting hurt or feeling used. Alas.

And now it's been 2 years and everyone is frustrated BECAUSE THE LOVE ISN'T THERE. He cares about you, A LOT, but it's not love. Otherwise he would've been able to reassure you emotionally, easily.

[celestina]

Oh, one very important distinction.

SHE needs the love, to be able to have sex and fully enjoy it with him. While he, could have loveless sex and enjoy it just as much. So IMO, she's absolutely doing the right thing abstaining from sex with this guy. It's most likely that the relationship will only go downhill from the moment they f*ck and she will only feel hurt and used and betrayed, no matter how he feels for her afterwards. If he can't reassure her now about his feelings and the certainty of their relationship, he can't do it later on after sex, neither.

She is not being manipulative or anything, she's being safe and protecting herself. Yes, it IS a trust issue, and you need to find someone you can trust 100% and who will love you back for who you are and make you feel safe enough to have sex after a few weeks/months within the relationship... NOT 2 years.

[lilxcutie53]

Her need for security CAN be filled by a man. Just not this one.

And I don't think she's scared of sex. She's human, she wants it too. She's just scared of his feelings not being strong/serious enough for them to be sleeping together. The guy loves her enough to be with her for 2 sexless years, yes, but obviously he doesn't love her enough to be able to tell it to her and to promise her that he'll still care even after the sex. That's what worries her. And within reason. Neither of you are really sure about this relationship... The issue isn't even about her abstinence here. It's about your emotional incompatibility. If you two were really compatible, love and sex would've come naturally, within the first weeks/months of your relationship! To still be trying and forcing yourselves after 2 years... is just wrong, ridiculous and a waste of time.

And what's this about her being manipulative because she's "waving around the idea of sex" for 2 years? We could say that the guy has been waving around the idea of love too... One isn't more innocent/guilty than the other. Both are at fault, both want their needs fulfilled, and both have been patient enough to still be sticking around only if it's only to get what they want from the other. One thing for sure is that it's as hard for him to not have sex for 2 years just as it is hard on her emotionally to be a in an uncertain relationship. Torture for both.

What I think is that your feelings for each other can't and won't grow any more than it has during the last 2 years... coz after all this time, if he still can't say with certitude that he promises that he loves you (and finally bang you), babe, he just doesn't love you enough. It's time to move on. I know it sounds ridiculous to end things this way, but I don't see neither of you going to be satisfied any time soon in this relationship.

How bout you guys try not speak to each other for a week or two? See how you both feel after a little break. See if you both miss each other that much/equally. See if he does love you.

I understand what your saying although I did tell him that I was afraid to do it because I felt he was going to leave, and he said he wouldn't but I felt really vulnerable and sad to say that so I couldn't trust his answer. and he did tell me he loved me over Christmas, but we had been drinking and I didn't say it back beacuse I didnt want it to be said while we were drinking you know...and then we would both get frusturated by something and we'd fall in and out...and we talk about it when we have our talks about how we both fall in and out because of our frustrations. and it was funny...I went away to Boston for 3 months last summer and I was scared that things would fall apart because of the distance, but they didn't...distnace makes the heart grow founder..and our relationship grew. Maybe its not that were emotionally imcompatible, maybe its just right now were not right for eachother..maybe the both of us need to grow up and become less insecure with ourselves, bc yes he does have many insecurities. and he hasn't waived around the idea of love because he even told me that his friends told him to just straight up say that he loved me so that I would have sex and he told me that he didn't want to do that to me and that he really wanted to say it when he fully felt it.

I mean do you really think after a certain point if a guy doesnt say I love you he never will? I don't fully believe that a guy really KNOWS they love someone, heart, mind body and soul until you really get to know them. Like even if he told me 3 months in that he loved me..I would of told him to tell me later only because he wouldnt know me enough to REALLY KNOW.

I also have a feeling that if we didn't speak we'd really miss eachother..I just know we would

Oh, one very important distinction.

SHE needs the love, to be able to have sex and fully enjoy it with him. While he, could have loveless sex and enjoy it just as much. So IMO, she's absolutely doing the right thing abstaining from sex with this guy. It's most likely that the relationship will only go downhill from the moment they f*ck and she will only feel hurt and used and betrayed, no matter how he feels for her afterwards. If he can't reassure her now about his feelings and the certainty of their relationship, he can't do it later on after sex, neither.

She is not being manipulative or anything, she's being safe and protecting herself. Yes, it IS a trust issue, and you need to find someone you can trust 100% and who will love you back for who you are and make you feel safe enough to have sex after a few weeks/months within the relationship... NOT 2 years.

Thank you for supporting me and seeing my side of things. Its not that he hasn't shown that he cares..I know he cares. I think its just when we dont talk my mind goes crazy as to why he hasnt responded to a text or we haven't spoken all day and I assume the worst and I automatically resent him.., but there are many other actions that do show that he does care. Like if we lived together..I'd be totally fine...i would always know I was coming home to him so it wouldn't matter if we texted all day, and its not like I would have to be next to him every second, just knowning hes in the same house as me is all that I need.

[MaidenMinx]

Her need for security CAN be filled by a man. Just not this one.

And I don't think she's scared of sex. She's human, she wants it too. She's just scared of his feelings not being strong/serious enough for them to be sleeping together. The guy loves her enough to be with her for 2 sexless years, yes, but obviously he doesn't love her enough to be able to tell it to her and to promise her that he'll still care even after the sex. That's what worries her. And within reason. Neither of you are really sure about this relationship... The issue isn't even about her abstinence here. It's about your emotional incompatibility. If you two were really compatible, love and sex would've come naturally, within the first weeks/months of your relationship! To still be trying and forcing yourselves after 2 years... is just wrong, ridiculous and a waste of time.

And what's this about her being manipulative because she's "waving around the idea of sex" for 2 years? We could say that the guy has been waving around the idea of love too... One isn't more innocent/guilty than the other. Both are at fault, both want their needs fulfilled, and both have been patient enough to still be sticking around only if it's only to get what they want from the other. One thing for sure is that it's as hard for him to not have sex for 2 years just as it is hard on her emotionally to be a in an uncertain relationship. Torture for both.

What I think is that your feelings for each other can't and won't grow any more than it has during the last 2 years... coz after all this time, if he still can't say with certitude that he promises that he loves you (and finally bang you), babe, he just doesn't love you enough. It's time to move on. I know it sounds ridiculous to end things this way, but I don't see neither of you going to be satisfied any time soon in this relationship.

How bout you guys try not speak to each other for a week or two? See how you both feel after a little break. See if you both miss each other that much/equally. See if he does love you.

No, she needs to feel secure within herself first. All this posturing is just her trying to cover up the fact that she thinks if she gives any guy her all it won't be enough and he'll leave.

I actually don't need to respond to the rest of your ramble because essentially her problem comes down to this. Good on her for having some morals and not giving into the first cute guy that came along, but it sounds like this has developed in to a real issue for her. I personally believe she has unrealistic expectations (she wants him to prove his committed before she'll sleep with him yet will refuse to acknowledge that 2 years is proof. Seriously, what more does she want?!?) and has a fairly tale ideal that won't be fulfilled.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with having morals. There is a problem when someone insists on imposing those morals onto others.

[celestina]

and he did tell me he loved me over Christmas, but we had been drinking and I didn't say it back beacuse I didnt want it to be said while we were drinking you know...and then we would both get frusturated by something and we'd fall in and out...and we talk about it when we have our talks about how we both fall in and out because of our frustrations.

That's not love dear. You don't just fall in and out of love. And you've already mentioned the Christmas thingie--which I still think is an insignificant detail and irrelevant to the whole issue.

maybe the both of us need to grow up and become less insecure with ourselves, bc yes he does have many insecurities.

You've been growing together for 2 years and he still doesn't love you enough... Honey, it doesn't take 2 years to get to know a person and to love them. The love should start AS you get to know a person AND during, not after. Besides, you never completely get to know someone. I mean how much more do you want him to know you? Are there many things that he still doesn't know about you? Are you not being yourself with him? Are you not showing him certain sides of you by fear that he will not love you for it? I think this could be the real source of the problem.

and he hasn't waived around the idea of love because he even told me that his friends told him to just straight up say that he loved me so that I would have sex and he told me that he didn't want to do that to me and that he really wanted to say it when he fully felt it.

As I said, he cares about you enough not to lie to you just to get you into bed, but he DOESN'T FEEL LOVE FOR YOU enough to be able to tell it to you from the heart. Please read yourself.

I mean do you really think after a certain point if a guy doesnt say I love you he never will? I don't fully believe that a guy really KNOWS they love someone, heart, mind body and soul until you really get to know them. Like even if he told me 3 months in that he loved me..I would of told him to tell me later only because he wouldnt know me enough to REALLY KNOW.

It's up to you if you want to pursue this loveless/sexless relationship. But you say that you are both grumpy now at this point and I just hope for you that it doesn't end bitterly.

[lilxcutie53]

I just want to feel fully comfortable..and your right I had to change some of my expectations and just get over some stuff that I knew would never happen..and I thought 2 years would be enough of a commitment, but when realy not much has been talked about for the future..it doesn't make me feel 100% comfortable. I'm like 90%. I just need to be secure with myself first before I can do anything..its also a battle between what other people think SHOULD happen in our relationshop vs. what i'm happy with, but just don't really see it because i'm always thinking about what SHOULD happen. If that makes sense.

[lilxcutie53]

That's not love dear. You don't just fall in and out of love. And you've already mentioned the Christmas thingie--which I still think is an insignificant detail and irrelevant to the whole issue.



You've been growing together for 2 years and he still doesn't love you enough... Honey, it doesn't take 2 years to get to know a person and to love them. The love should start AS you get to know a person AND during, not after. Besides, you never completely get to know someone. I mean how much more do you want him to know you? Are there many things that he still doesn't know about you? Are you not being yourself with him? Are you not showing him certain sides of you by fear that he will not love you for it? I think this could be the real source of the problem.



As I said, he cares about you enough not to lie to you just to get you into bed, but he DOESN'T FEEL LOVE FOR YOU enough to be able to tell it to you from the heart. Please read yourself.



It's up to you if you want to pursue this loveless/sexless relationship. But you say that you are both grumpy now at this point and I just hope for you that it doesn't end bitterly.

Like before I didn't feel love for him because I was also resenting him for the small tings hat he did and then my friends snapped me out of having that attitude and to see the whole picture and I started to realize OVERALL that I do love him, but it took me this long to figure it out well just because i'm still growing and figuring myself out.

And its funny..I actually didn't tink i could be myself, but I can..I be stupid, embarrassing, say things that people think i was wierd for saying and he would be ok with it. and we talk about a lot of deep issues and we can relate really well. There is a lot that we have in common and we think similarly on certain things..i dunno..its hard to explain.

I just think were both being selfish and not letting things happen as they should and putting pressure on eachother to give eachother what we want even if were not ready to do so. I shouldnt resent him and he shouldn't resent me for not having sex with him. Maybe we both just need to get over ourselves and just opne up.

[IndiReloaded]

I understand what your saying although I did tell him that I was afraid to do it because I felt he was going to leave, and he said he wouldn't but I felt really vulnerable and sad to say that so I couldn't trust his answer.

You've waited too long. Not smart. Now you've gone and twisted yourself up b/c of it. At this point, he might be getting it elsewhere and is just waiting for you to give it up before breaking up w/you. LOL.

Have sex when you are ready, b/c you want to. Not for anyone else. If you do it for any other reason you will regret it. Chances are high you will break up regardless. Sorry, but its the truth. If you think that making him wait is increasing your chances of him marrying you, forget it.

Even people with sexual hangups (and I'm guessing you have some--abused perhaps?) don't wait so long. You say you have chemistry but I don't think you do. Not the kind of chemistry others here are talking about. I predict this isn't going to last, but I think you already know this. Good luck.