Why are nices guys unlucky in love?

[UnknownXV]

Well, asking them what they want to do isn't bad, but the rest I can see being unattractive.

[DannyH]

Beat me to the opposite side of the coin of my point.

[DannyH]

Fine I'll do a big post about "nice" guys (ok not exactly a big post lol)

I already did the how you get talked to.

Now let's go about giving something to a women.

The "nice" guy does it for seeking approval. Like a child bringing home the noodle necklace to his mother.
"Nice" guys say things like I got you flowers you like them. Happens with every gift every god damn time.
Trying to buy their approval.

Normal people you know the ones who are not insecure. Buy a gift for a women for the right reasons. You know because they want to. Not giving a crap if they like them or not.

"Nice" guys have are clingy as hell. Using women as a source for their own god damn happiness. His girl goes out of sight they get jealous, worry about what she is doing when he isn't around. Every damn choice the "nice" guy makes is to make the women happy. if I make her happy... she'll make me happy.. Sound familiar?

"Nice" guys end up needing their girl in their life instead of just wanting them. Seriously look at the word need. How screwed up is that. If you don't get something you need you will die. Like food and water.
This is why when nice guy's girl breaks it off and runs away screaming
"nice" guy gets depressed and wants to die... Again sound familiar?

Wanting somebody to make your life more enjoyable isn't wrong
Needing somebody to make your life more enjoyable is really kinda screwed up.

Doing the right things for the wrong reasons isn't
being nice it's being insecure. Which is what most "nice" guys don't understand.

and more reading for you "nice" guys [url]http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml[/url]

[DarkHelmet82]

Found this article

A long time ago (or maybe not so long), it was beyond my understanding how being a nice guy can be a bad thing. I thought that the nicer you were the better results you got: in your relationships, your career and your life as a whole.

Then I learned about the nice guy syndrome and I embarked in one of the most electrifying personal development journeys in my life.

What Is the Nice Guy Syndrome?
The nice guy syndrome refers to a behavioral pattern in some men of being very nice to others.

The typical nice guy puts other people’s needs first, always helps others, avoids confrontation, does chivalrous things, and is proud of it. His nice behavior is particularly obvious with women.

The nice guy syndrome has been getting increasingly more attention in the past few years in psychology, as the less than satisfying effects it creates make it start to lose its positive image.

What’s Wrong with Being a Nice Guy?
Quite a lot is wrong with being a nice guy as matter of fact. As a communication coach, I often work with men who I soon realize have the nice guy syndrome.

As a result of this syndrome, they have mediocre careers compared with how skilled they are and how hard they work, they are in toxic relationships, or they sabotage almost every aspect of their lives. I have seen such effects so often that for me, they became highly predictable.

Nice guy behavior may look good on paper, but in reality it has a pretty ugly face. In order to grasp this, consider that the nice guy syndrome fundamentally means people pleasing behavior. As a consequence:

Nice guys come off as needy and insecure;
Nice guys are generic and predictable, so it’s hard for them to create a spark;
Nice guys end up ignoring their own needs and not taking care of themselves;
Nice guys end up not being there for the people who really matter, because they try to please everybody;
Nice guys are full of repressed rage and they tend to erupt at the most inappropriate times;
Nice guys lie, hide and they try to get what they want in indirect, manipulative ways.
From there, all hell breaks loose.

The Nice Guy Paradigm
The leading authority on this topic is Dr. Robert Glover, a therapist who specializes in working with men with the nice guy syndrome, and author of the best-selling self-help book for men No More Mr. Nice Guy.

According to Dr. Glover, all nice guys operate (consciously or not) on the same basic paradigm:

If I can hide my flaws and become what I think others want me to be then I will be loved, get my needs met, and have a problem-free life.

Of course, this paradigm is unrealistic and ineffective, not to mention a pile of crap.


The point is not to turn into an asshole. Being kind and polite to others has its place. However, nice guys tend to take this too far and they make being nice and getting approval the compass of their social behavior.

Having been both a nice guy and (mostly for research purposes) a jerk, I can tell you that in my experience, none of these are healthy behaviors and there is a path in-between which creates much better results.

Overcoming the Nice Guy Syndrome
As an ex-nice guy and a coach who also works with nice guys (and girls), I came to believe that there are three essential stages in overcoming the nice guy syndrome:

Step 1: Realizing and accepting the fact that being a nice guy may sound noble and some people may compliment you for it but overall, it is not a healthy or productive way of being. The concept is flawed. For many men, this step is the hardest.

Step 2: Creating a deep paradigm shift. Even after you realize being nice does not work, the nice guy paradigm will still exist in your cognitive schemas, from where it influences your automatic thinking and disempowers you. You’ll need to consciously change your thinking and weed it out of there.

Step 3: Being less nice. This step involves changing your behavior, developing key people skills and turning it into a less nice one. Specific actions may include:

Expressing yourself more, even when you may upset someone;
Asking for what you want and saying ‘no’ to others;
Taking more time for yourself and taking care of your own needs;
Ending toxic relationships which go nowhere.
The earlier you start, the faster your will enjoy the benefits of being a less nice guy. So take that nice guy smile off your face and go kick some ass!

[DannyH]

I really do disagree with that dude's who being nice is bad. Being nice is actually a good thing when done for the right reasons. Problem is "Nice" guys are not being nice for the sake of being nice.

"Nice" is now really just a new way to say somebody is insecure without being mean.


Insecure guys are needy and insecure; (ok a little redundant)
Insecure guys are generic and predictable, so it’s hard for them to create a spark;
Insecure guys end up ignoring their own needs and not taking care of themselves;
Insecure guys end up not being there for the people who really matter, because they try to please everybody;
Insecure guys are full of repressed rage and they tend to erupt at the most inappropriate times;
Insecure guys lie, hide and they try to get what they want in indirect, manipulative ways.

The dude who wrote that is still insecure. Confusing Nice and confusing confidence as being a jerk.

[oldskool83]

i will agree the "nice" can and normaly always goes back to insecurties...same with women.

[tgoodspe]

He is the "good" guy

That's definitely the distinction I think people need to make. I agree.

If the girl is having a horrible day for whatever reason, feeling sick or something, sure I might surprise her with flowers or cook her something to make her feel better. But if she's having a bad day then takes it out on me all of the sudden out of no where, that's a different story haha.

So why is it that nice guys like me are so unlucky in love.

They're not. Pushovers are. Just learn to stand up for yourself once in a while and take some initiative. I know where you're coming from and I KNOW you do things all the time even though you don't want to because "you want the girl to know you're nice and caring and" blah blah. She knows you're nice, but learn to say NO.

[ctr916]

Really at the end of the day "nice" guys treat women like their mother. Asking women basically for permission to do stuff. Asking what they want to do. Trying to get a women's approval on stuff. Getting told what to do.

What about a case where a nice guy simply doesn't have a petty cash fund for that purpose?

[ctr916]

i will agree the "nice" can and normaly always goes back to insecurties...same with women.

How does that account for the business world where people can be said to be paid to be nice, if they want repeat business? In my opinion, some women simply stereotype instead of discovering for themselves what they like or dislike about a person.

[DannyH]

What about a case where a nice guy simply doesn't have a petty cash fund for that purpose?

and the relevance to what I said is?

[sadie_genie]

Because you don't know how to say 'NO' thats why. Woman don't like men who cater to us even when we're being a bitch. We respect a man who has the ballzz to call us on our shit and "nice" guys never do ... instead of calling us on our shit you try to buy back our favor with flowers of some other crap. Learn to tell a woman "NO" and she will respect your ass.

That being said. There is a type of guy that is way better than the "nice" guy and a thousand times better than the "bad boy." He is the "good" guy and he'll be nice and confident and assertive while being attentive and available and not afraid of calling us on the shit that we always seem to be trying out.

Speak for yourself. I personally like the "nice" guy. Not nice to everyone and all the time but nice to me only because he loves me. A woman will have her "bitch" times and when a guy is willing give some love rather than call us out on it (which will lead to a fight), it is a sign he is a keeper and can sustain a long term relationship because he knows how to pick his battles.

[ctr916]

and the relevance to what I said is?

Obtaining market based metrics with other girls usually provide a basis for more objective, rational choices. Do you believe that women would really be what they claim, if it were a hypothetical social and legal requirement than men have to be wealthy? In my opinion, situational ethics apply.

[Ross MwcFan]

I think beeing too nice shows that yuo're insecure and unconfident. This isn't attractive to women.

[DannyH]

Obtaining market based metrics with other girls usually provide a basis for more objective, rational choices. Do you believe that women would really be what they claim, if it were a hypothetical social and legal requirement than men have to be wealthy? In my opinion, situational ethics apply.

Again your logic and reasoning have no place in this topic. your opinion isn't even based on the topic at hand. Your confusing yourself with the usage of the word nice and using it in the wrong context that takes place in this topic.
In this post Nice means insecure. Your trying to bring up points and opinions that have no place here and you have an opinion of women based on some false notion that is defended by such fallacy that nobody could even begin to prove you wrong because you really have no idea what your talking about yourself. Situational ethics do apply here which is why I am more focused on why the "nice" things to do are not. It's in the context and reasoning behind the action itself. Which is why this is really is a topic about men with insecurities instead of men being nice. Until you can grasp the concepts of the terms you are using I would suggest not using them. Now I ask again the relevance of what you said to me is?

[Wakeup]

Speak for yourself. I personally like the "nice" guy. Not nice to everyone and all the time but nice to me only because he loves me. A woman will have her "bitch" times and when a guy is willing give some love rather than call us out on it (which will lead to a fight), it is a sign he is a keeper and can sustain a long term relationship because he knows how to pick his battles.

You speak for yourself.. This thread is about why nice guys don't get what they want. One of the reasons is because they don't have the baIls to tell anyone, never mind a woman "No."

'Ive been married for 30+ years and we didn't get to this point with him being "nice" to me when I needed to be sent to the naughty chair. (figuratively speaking of course) Believe me a woman can certainly survive without a blow up arguement insueing if a strong and confident man tells you "No dear" and gives you a damn good reason why a "no" is needed to be said. (vise versa for him when he needs to told "no")

Entitlement princess behaviour is unattractive to many, many men and definately to me as a fellow woman. Forever spoiling is not conducive to keeping your woman intrigued. Nor is it a catalyst for mutual harmony with each other.

Newsflash: Telling a woman "no" when a no needs to be told does not make a man NOT nice in general.