Should people have to get a license to reproduce?

[Talith_of_Rendi]

Yeah, it was serious, a little bit, maybe. I actually would be in favor of issuing hunting licenses that allowed the holder to shoot any animal wearing gang colors or flashing gang signs, but that's a little different than what I wrote above.

I think I was channeling Jonathan Swift a little: "A Modest Proposal" for the 21st Century, updated from the 1729 version. That's just a guess, though; the voice in my head might not have been Swift at all.

I'm still mulling over the main issue at hand, however, I thought I'd point out that "A Modest Proposal" was a sarcastic approach, not a literal one. If you look at the rest of his life, he said it specifically to get a rise out of society in hopes that they'd stop and look at how silly they were being. At least, this was what I've found from my research on the topic. I agree that baby pie sounds like an excellent delicacy, but that's besides the point.

[SelflessnHumble]

Your argument has a logical flaw. You are saying here that those who are poor (who need to collect money from agencies) are unfit parents therefore they shouldn't be allowed to have children. Your criteria of "fit" you have outlined here is personal income. How do you know parents who are rich (or at least rich enough not to have to collect money from various agencies) would make "fit" parents and who would not raise violent, unproductive, and worthless children?

It seems that your argument stems largely from selfish motivations.

Sadie, let me ask you this.
If a woman (who say has had 20 sexual partners) out of those 20, has had 4 children out of those....each one a different father, and not a single ONE sticks around for
that child: I would say the mother has shit for intuition and piss for decision making skills, wouldn't you? Now, if this woman makes only $800/month...

WHY should anyone else out there busting their asses off: help pay for her welfare?
Yes, once those children were born...they are already here so I guess the statement to make is, "just deal with it: they are already here." Right?

While we don't know conclusively that rich parents breed the same amount of violent/unproductive and worthless children the fact is:
A child needs:

-attention
-love
-security
-stability
-MONEY

See that?
You could dress your kid in rags and he/she wouldn't care because he/she wouldn't know they were rags until society either labels the child or they get a socially accepted clue.
You can replace love with money (the rich do this all the time) -personal experience- but you can't replace the fundamentals with abuse/neglect/abandonment.

The child grows up unfulfilled but success, money and power are adequate substitutes because these love-depraved children seek to personal possession(s) for comfort.
(This is fundamentally why they KEEP acquiring riches) <----------------Because what they have is never enough. See that?

I'm not selfish and unfit parents are all around us.
This, while debatable to some, isn't to me.

I worked as a grocery clerk in a store way back when...
Guess what dare I say *most* of the poor people on food stamps wore?

Gold/Blingy Jewelery, expensive clothes, name brand hand bags (drove a piece of shit bucket with $5,000 rims on it) and what did the children look like?
Remember that infomercial with those starving children in Africa? Yeah....That. It was incomprehensible to me (at 17) no less, how these people
allowed their children to look like that and I'm not just talking the clothes. Hair wasn't trimmed, dried snot out their noses, allowing them to run around without supervision...

Every argument has logical flaws. Take your pick and we will point out the flaw(s) Big deal.
Being poor does NOT disqualify you from having children.

Being shitty parents
Being a product of abuse yourself
Being selfish (going out to clubs while junior has a stranger looking after him)
Being irresponsible DOES.

If you cannot afford to have children....WHAT BUSINESS do you have in having one?
Is it illegal? No.

Is it common sense? Is it morally and ethically incumbent upon every potential parent to afford their children the top spot in their prioritized life? YES.

[Incognito]

Exploiting one's children for welfare isn't very stupid at all - those people usually need the money anyway; they're in poverty... the stupid ones are those who take that money and feed their chemical addictions, etc. Compulsory sterilization to get rid of THAT is absolutely unreasonable. You're just an angry taxpayer.

I still stand by my opinion - taxes and welfare are fücking awesome. I think there should be more funding and more taxes! Hooray for taxes!

People that have children in order to get welfare may not be stupid (in that they figured out a way to live off of everyone around them legally), but they certainly are worthless. If someone has a kid and then honestly needs help that is different. Its funny how you keep on calling me an angry tax payer so that I'll get angry and argue that non-related issue with you. Its not going to happen. This thread may have something to do with taxes in relation to welfare, but it is mainly about people who shouldn't have kids and how to possibly stop it. If you think that enabling/encouraging more people to reproduce irresponsibly and addressing that problem with more money out of your pocket to take care of those children and possibly the parents then volunteer your whole paycheck to the government. I'm sure they won't mind taking it.

[SelflessnHumble]

Exploiting one's children for welfare isn't very stupid at all - those people usually need the money anyway; they're in poverty... the stupid ones are those who take that money and feed their chemical addictions, etc. Compulsory sterilization to get rid of THAT is absolutely unreasonable. You're just an angry taxpayer.

I still stand by my opinion - taxes and welfare are fücking awesome. I think there should be more funding and more taxes! Hooray for taxes!

You obviously haven't a clue as to how Government is "supposed" to work. Taxing the ever-living shit out of its (working class) people to aid (the poor)
people who can't get off their asses and become a go-getting, job seeking, purpose yielding responsible adult is bullshit plain and simple.

Since you don't know about each State's comprehensive financial annual report, and that money is an illusory tool designed to enslave the ignorant masses into voluntary servitude
I don't see how your opinions bear any on point significance nor substance when they avoid pertinent facts when arriving at your socialistic views of how other people should pay for other people's
misfortunes which in itself is inherently myopic.

[SelflessnHumble]

People that have children in order to get welfare may not be stupid (in that they figured out a way to live off of everyone around them legally), but they certainly are worthless. If someone has a kid and then honestly needs help that is different. Its funny how you keep on calling me an angry tax payer so that I'll get angry and argue that non-related issue with you. Its not going to happen. This thread may have something to do with taxes in relation to welfare, but it is mainly about people who shouldn't have kids and how to possibly stop it. If you think that enabling/encouraging more people to reproduce irresponsibly and addressing that problem with more money out of your pocket to take care of those children and possibly the parents then volunteer your whole paycheck to the government. I'm sure they won't mind taking it.

The fact is: everyone should have the opportunity to have children.
We cannot instill a sort of precrime protocol that preempts child birth just because someone doesn't meet deemed worthy-criteria. No.
Reason being is that child birth has the power to change people into responsible adults along with the inherent responsibilities therein.

However this person (should they prove to suck as parents) should not be allowed to have more. Period.
The goal isn't to stop people from procreating. It's to stop making more unloved children from the same piss poor excuse for parenting.
Should these people wish to have more children? Great...Show me what this child exemplifies and no problem.

Then there should be an interactive interview/class (not multiple choice bullshit) where you proactively involve the potential parent and show them how to love,
how to be responsible. If this doesn't work? They should NOT be allowed to have more children. Pretty simple plan.

Not to mention children need a 4th trimester and I can't tell you how many people have babies where they never bonded with the baby because: back to work I go.
Babysitting doesn't = parenting.

[Incognito]

I can't lie..... I had to look up 'myopic', lol.

[SelflessnHumble]

lol, hey your inbox is full

[Incognito]

....... child birth has the power to change people into responsible adults along with the inherent responsibilities therein.

However this person (should they prove to suck as parents) should not be allowed to have more. Period.
The goal isn't to stop people from procreating. It's to stop making more unloved children from the same piss poor excuse for parenting.
Should these people wish to have more children? Great...Show me what this child exemplifies and no problem.

Then there should be an interactive interview/class (not multiple choice bullshit) where you proactively involve the potential parent and show them how to love,
how to be responsible. If this doesn't work? They should NOT be allowed to have more children. Pretty simple plan.

That is actually a great idea. That way instead of relying solely on a test to [attempt] to determine someone's parental worthiness they simply get a chance to prove it. Then if they failed as a parents they will not be allowed to have anymore. If abuse, or neglect is taking place then the child can be placed in an orphanage built with Doppel's donated paychecks. If the parents are trying to provide, but cannot, then they can be put onto the Doppel-welfare program until they are able to care for everything with their own funds.

[Incognito]

lol, hey your inbox is full

Oh ok. I just emptied it.

[doppelgaenger]

People that have children in order to get welfare may not be stupid (in that they figured out a way to live off of everyone around them legally), but they certainly are worthless.

Right, I agree with that, but I wasn't referring to people who "have children in order to get welfare".

Its funny how you keep on calling me an angry tax payer so that I'll get angry and argue that non-related issue with you.

Sorry, but you and others really do sound like a bunch of angry tax payers. That's because you generalize that poor people relying on welfare are bad parents in general and your best solution to such an issue is mass sterilization. Not well contemplated, IMO. Just sounds like an angry rant to me. The lack of statistics or information reinforces that.

but it is mainly about people who shouldn't have kids and how to possibly stop it.

Have you ever considered any other alternatives? Raising age of consent, maybe? Creating penalties that deter people from taking foolish risks? Improving the quality of education? There are a couple of nationwide budget cuts about to happen for public schools in the USA. It's already incredibly poor - "all you need to get into college is a fückin' pencil!"

If you think that enabling/encouraging more people to reproduce irresponsibly and addressing that problem with more money out of your pocket to take care of those children and possibly the parents then volunteer your whole paycheck to the government. I'm sure they won't mind taking it.

I have never once encouraged irresponsible sexual practices. Furthermore, my paycheck isn't very large and it wouldn't make as much a difference as an increase in nationwide tax revenue. I already do my best to help out - by volunteering for community service once or twice per month.

You obviously haven't a clue as to how Government is "supposed" to work. Taxing the ever-living shit out of its (working class) people to aid (the poor)
people who can't get off their asses and become a go-getting, job seeking, purpose yielding responsible adult is bullshit plain and simple.

Okay, and I never suggested taxing the ever-living shit out of the working class to aid the poor. But on the contrary, US taxes are relatively low in comparison to many countries, particularly those which are more economically stable - socialist countries, in fact.

Since you don't know about each State's comprehensive financial annual report, and that money is an illusory tool designed to enslave the ignorant masses into voluntary servitude

Care to clarify what you mean at all? I can easily make the same assumption about you here - nobody has referred even once to annual finance reports. So go babble on and make some more conspiracy theories while you're at it.

I don't see how your opinions bear any on point significance nor substance when they avoid pertinent facts when arriving at your socialistic views of how other people should pay for other people's
misfortunes which in itself is inherently myopic.

Sounds like you don't have a clue what insurance is.

[SelflessnHumble]

Care to clarify what you mean at all? I can easily make the same assumption about you here - nobody has referred even once to annual finance reports. So go babble on and make some more conspiracy theories while you're at it.

This is why attempting to have an adult like/professional conversation with you is impossible.

I have to now screen you...

(1) What is a theory?
(2) What is a conspiracy theory?
(3) Can a conspiracy exist factually without being deemed (by you) a theory?

If you answered yes to (3)
[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5823209513192072459#docid=6703413885850200097]Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports EXPOSED[/url]

Sounds like you don't have a clue what insurance is.

Insurance costs money doesn't it?



Last point: Please tell me why the Government needs to add:

Fluoride and Lithium into our water supplies?

[doppelgaenger]

This is why attempting to have an adult like/professional conversation with you is impossible.

Sorry, but if you don't provide a reasonable argument along with your trash posts, I really can't respond in a professional or academic manner.

rabble rabblerabble rab rab rabble

(1) blabla
(2) blahblalbahlblah
(3) blablablalbalbalbalablaah

If you answered yes to (3)
[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5823209513192072459#docid=6703413885850200097]Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports EXPOSED[/url]

*LOL* I FÜCKING KNEW IT!!!!

*takes 5 minutes for a roffelmao*

Insurance costs money doesn't it?

Yeah, and if you don't have insurance, guess what costs a fückload more?

Last point: Please tell me why the Government needs to add:

Fluoride and Lithium into our water supplies?

[Insert Yankee oath here]
I fail to see how this has ANYTHING to do with welfare, parenting, poverty, or sterilization.

Water is fluoridated to prevent tooth decay, and it does this effectively. I dunno about you, but I happen to know a lot about this - my uncle does it for a living, and I happen to keep in check with my local water supply, which happens to be safe for drinking, according to the recent records I received in the mail. I've also lived in countries where the water is not enhanced at all - in fact it was brown! Lithium is not added to the water, but there are natural traces of it found in water. Let me guess, you have another conspiracy theory for this and you wanna share it with everyone?

[misombra]

oh my gawd this thread sucks so bad. the next person to post here is going to hell.

[Incognito]

1.Right, I agree with that, but I wasn't referring to people who "have children in order to get welfare".



2.Sorry, but you and others really do sound like a bunch of angry tax payers. That's because you generalize that poor people relying on welfare are bad parents in general and your best solution to such an issue is mass sterilization. Not well contemplated, IMO. Just sounds like an angry rant to me. The lack of statistics or information reinforces that.



3.Have you ever considered any other alternatives? Raising age of consent, maybe? Creating penalties that deter people from taking foolish risks? Improving the quality of education? There are a couple of nationwide budget cuts about to happen for public schools in the USA. It's already incredibly poor - "all you need to get into college is a fückin' pencil!"



4.I have never once encouraged irresponsible sexual practices. Furthermore, my paycheck isn't very large and it wouldn't make as much a difference as an increase in nationwide tax revenue. I already do my best to help out - by volunteering for community service once or twice per month.

1. I'm glad that you agree, but I WAS referring to those people, so for you to falsely assert that I was referring to all welfare recipients as bad parents and then busting my chops for it is downright silly.

2. There you go asserting that I am think that welfare parents are generally bad when I have stated in plain English that is not the case. Whatever.

3. Raising the age of consent will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I can't believe you even said that. That's like putting a sign on a post (with no fence or other barrier) to prevent trespassing. You are assuming that a consent law will somehow prevent pregnancy? Wow.

4. You don't encourage irresponsible sexual practice? Oh, but you do. Silence is complicity my friend, and your views point to someone who attacks the symptom and not the problem itself. You propose more welfare and more orphanages and higher taxes to pay for it. You haven't once stated that people who irresponsibly reproduce should have some kind of control placed upon them to deter or prevent pregnancy. You're like the guy who snips the tops of the weeds off and wonders why they return a week later. You need to get to the root. More importantly is the original point, which is that the taxes involved ARE NOT the main issue. The main issue is that children who aren't in good homes, with decent, caring parents produce inferior adults. While they are children they also cause problems for the schools that they are in and cause problems for the other children who they are around. I experienced that firsthand. I (unfortunately) have lived in communities where the parents didn't care about the children. Those kids wandered the streets all day and long into the night making noise, destroying property and getting into other trouble. Do I think that they eventually "got better" and became successful adults? No, I don't. Some probably got arrested for petty crimes, some probably got arrested for serious crimes, and most (if not all) reproduced. If all of that can be prevented, then why not?

[Incognito]

oh my gawd this thread sucks so bad. the next person to post here is going to hell.

Ha, I'm going to hell? I'd better bring my mini fan. I suppose that you are another 'treat the symptom and not the problem' person? When I started this thread I brought up sterilization, but selflessnhumble posted a way better solution a couple of posts back. He proposed that everyone can have a child, but that license for future children be based on how that first child is being raised. I personally think that is a way better, more palatable way to go about it. Any comments on that?