Completely Numb Right Now

[SelflessnHumble]

I guess it depends on x, y, and z. Maybe x was vandalize my car, y was get some friends together and beat me up, and z was set my apartment building on fire. She says that this guy has known where I live for years. He says that he thought I was a creepy old landlord who wouldn't let Amy have visitors, so seems to imply that he has known where I lived for years, too, though he initially acted as though he wasn't sure if he was at the right place.

Objection....Leading the witness.

[SelflessnHumble]

Considering that she's a grown-up too, how was she able to believe all those (supposed) threats? Isn't that a bit puerile?

Agreed. Trying to get inside the head of a person who bargains and negotiates within as to what they will tolerate is unknown. (even to them)
In this same situation I was a 10, and this other dude was an ex convict (project housing Carmelitos off Via Wanda, in long beach, ca)

She had the MF'er on the phone as I made a surprise visit...I grabbed the phone, and with tact diplomacy found out the nature of their relationship...
He told me everything...She denied everything...so it was simple, right?

I asked her if she truly loved me as she claimed (while she was crying and begging me to stay) I told her:

"Grab the phone, and tell him you are in love with me, are my woman, and just allowed me to nut in her mouth" (ghetto talk for BJ)

She looked at me like a deer in headlights...She couldn't, but grabbed the phone, and told the dude "call you later" and hung up.
She never reasoned, never made an attempt to apologize, just grabbed my hand and told me "let's go" lol, right!

Sociopaths, or even damaged people don't know WTF they are doing -even though they choose to do it!
Do you know how many people in this world exist -where unless you actually SAW them do something...they use the bart simpson's defense?

"I didn't do it"
"Nobody saw me do it"
"You can't prove anything"

As Pablo Francisco would say, "YOU weren't THERE!!!!"

[red_sparrow]

it does sound like she may have been a sociopath...

[VincenzoG91]

Knoiwng the type of guy you are....she'd think you would understand surely??? She's told you all of this now and hoping you'd understand.....why not years ago and if he's been such a bastard to her???

There's one reason why she felt that she couldn't talk about it back then. During the first year we were together, she discovered that I had an anger management problem. It was just her, I was sometimes getting into borderline road rage territory, and told her about some violent incidents from years past, like the crackhouse situation. I was physically abusive to her or around her, but I was verbally abusive and sometimes hit inanimate objects in anger. The first time we had a big (verbal fight), she was scared of my intensity, and the volume of voice (think marine drill sergeant volume). Within a couple of weeks, I signed up for an anger management class. Most of my local friends couldn't understand it, but old friends that knew me in my teens and 20s were really glad to hear about this. Even after taking the class, which was a very positive experience, I had some occasional relapses as I went through financial hell, supporting her completely after her foot surgeries, even after losing my job and then landing a much lower-paying temp job.

It's likely that her perception of my anger made her avoid an official breakup and just let us drift apart due to minimal contact. And during that drifting phase, she met up with Craig. I still consider that a betrayal, but I admit that the circumstances make it comparable to the classic Ross/Rachel dispute from Friends. ("We were on a break!") So when she decided to leave Craig and go back to me in late 2006, she was reluctant to tell me the truth, but afraid when Craig threatened to expose her.

Still, I really did take that anger management course to heart, and got even better since then at handling anger. It saved me at my current job, during the stressful early years working directly under the first CEO, who often lashed out during her long, messy divorce. Thanks to anger management, I also managed to survive nearly getting fired by the paranoid second CEO. The current CEO and I have almost identical Myers-Briggs profiles and get along great. In the last year, Amy finally got over thinking of me as an angry that couldn't handle the truth, though she hadn't seen any angry incidents from me since, um, July of 2009. I think that the utterly civilized way that I handled our breakup last February really opened her eyes.

He wasn't a bastard the whole time. She admitted that she fell in love with him in 2005, and it took her a year to realize that he was a control freak. It was when she tried to break things off with him and get back with me that he started pressuring her and controlling her, threatening to tell me and everybody else that she was a cheater.

I'm thinking that there was a certain element of grass is always greener. Towards the end of their happy year together, she started to feel that she was better off with me. After she had been living with me for two years and we went through a real rough spot, she thought she might be better off with him. And once she finally moved in with him a year ago, he felt confident enough in his control of her that he could be verbally abusive all the time. He must have really resented those years when she lived at my place.

I know, I should be taking Craig's side into account, that he didn't know who I was until this week. But my neighbor was really put off by his whole manner and says that he seemed suspicious when he showed up here. And the idea that Craig knew she lived here for 2.5 years but never visited once because Amy told him she couldn't have visitors? That's really hard to believe.

[VincenzoG91]

Whether this Craig blackmailed her not....she always had a CHOICE. Nobody can force us to remain iin a situation that we don't want to be in and who the heck in their right mind would remain in this kind of forced situation, where he'd blackmailed, bullied and beat her??. She stayed with him and because she wanted too.

There are many women who endure years of physical abuse without leaving, and even make excuses for the abuser. Amy didn't say anything about this guy ever actually doing anything violent, just verbal abuse and threats of violence towards me. So it seems like it would be even easier for her to rationalize staying, to avoid conflict.

[VincenzoG91]

By the way, I spent 10 hours today with several close friends, and we spent about 4 hours going over her story and Craig's story like police detectives working the transcript from an interrogation.

In the end, none of them could 100% believe her story. Even taking it at face value, they felt that her behavior was poor, that she should have clearly broken up with me before dating Craig, and that she should have had Craig completely out of her life before coming back to me. And that I should have known about Craig right away if he was hassling her.

They felt that Craig's story was simpler, and had a chance of being 100% true. But I caught my neighbor on the way out the door and asked him to share his thoughts with my friends about Craig, and he talked about how he was so suspicious, he almost wrote down Craig's license plate number.

Today is the first that I've really felt angry at times about the whole mess. I wanted to yell at her and punch Craig and smash up some furniture. I decided that I'm going to officially dump Amy the next time we meet, but tell her that I might be willing to start dating her in a few months if she could prove that Craig was out of her life and she also met several conditions. I need a break from drama, and if she really wants to leave Craig, it should be easier if he doesn't feel like he is competing with me anymore.

Many aspects of our relationship that have troubled me over the years are allegedly related to Craig's interference. If we start dating again, I expect to see all of those behaviors to change for the better. If I don't see substantive improvements, it will be really easy for me to dump her.

Also, honestly, I just want a break anyway right now, so I can have some meaningless flings for a while.

[MerryH]

Well, I'm glad you've decided not to see her, but why are you even entertaining the possibility of getting back together with her if certain conditions are met? That just seems...really unhealthy. And kind of controlling in a weird way. Like if you require physical proof or certain documentations in order to date someone, doesn't that seem wrong to you?

Anyway, there's a lot more that could be said about that, but I don't want to give you a hard time. The important thing is that you're going to stay away from her for now. In a few days or weeks, once you're able to think a little more clearly I really hope you'll change your mind about getting back with her.

[VincenzoG91]

Conditions... like, she moves out of Craig's place. That's mandatory, nobody should date a person still living with an abusive ex. If her story holds water, then she should get a restraining order against him, and I'd like to see it. Before I have sex with her again, it would be nice to see that she has been tested for STDs, since she insisted on that before we started having sex in 2004. If she objects and finds these conditions burdensome, that's cool, I will date other women instead.

Maybe that's just the anger talking, but even the best possible interpretation of her story means that some jealous rival has been secretly threatening me for years now. Yeah, I still care about her, though maybe I won't in a couple of months. But if I do still care about her months from now, then I would be cautiously willing to give her another chance. If she doesn't think that I'm worth the effort, to hell with her.

[sweetkissesforu]

Conditions... like, she moves out of Craig's place. That's mandatory, nobody should date a person still living with an abusive ex. If her story holds water, then she should get a restraining order against him, and I'd like to see it. Before I have sex with her again, it would be nice to see that she has been tested for STDs, since she insisted on that before we started having sex in 2004. If she objects and finds these conditions burdensome, that's cool, I will date other women instead.

Maybe that's just the anger talking, but even the best possible interpretation of her story means that some jealous rival has been secretly threatening me for years now. Yeah, I still care about her, though maybe I won't in a couple of months. But if I do still care about her months from now, then I would be cautiously willing to give her another chance. If she doesn't think that I'm worth the effort, to hell with her.

Are you a martyr

[MerryH]

I think you'd be really disappointed with yourself if you gave her another chance. Getting back with her would be a huge blow to your dignity. But, I guess you'll just deal with that situation if it ever arises.

Now go have some fun meaningless flings.

[Petit Papillon]

Oh man, don't even consider going back to her. JUST DON'T , she's a psychopath, nobody sane can do something like this, do you even see yourself with her?? I would be ****ing paranoid for the rest of my life think if she maybe is having someone else on a side. Jesus, it wasn't even normal cheating, she was having a RELATIONSHIP with someone else, she was ****ing engaged to him! Don't make me mad dude, if you even think about taking her back after she did something like this, spare further posts and advices here on LF, cause they wouldn't mean anything good and correct. This bitch should be out of your life forever!

[Take2]

Run, do not walk. Yes, you have invested a lot of time with this woman. But cut your losses and run. She will always be borderline honest at best, she will always be making drama in her life, she will always be a "victim" because that is her life mentality. You will NOT find happiness with this woman-not today and not in 3 months and not in 2 years. Run away and do not look back. Find real happiness with an honest woman who has integrity and a backbone and who owns her life mistakes and foibles. Seriously.

Also, one thing you keep mentioning as an either/or thing just isn't. Craig does NOT have to be an awesome choirboy who your neighbor wants to invite for coffee for Craig's story to be true. Craig could be the vilest slime ever to survive in human form, the type who makes neigbors write down his license number and the sort who lies and cheats just for fun...and still, in this instance, be telling the absolute truth!

[hello1]

Oh I know your in love and even if main parts of her story is true, she still cheated on you. She was still living two lifes. She was getting a kick out of it and she trying keep the game going on!

[VincenzoG91]

In the five stages of grief, I am currently in Anger.

[vashti]

Anger is better than denial.