the take away

[Aniphilia]

Ok guys, and girls if they can contribute:

So... If you have to run into your ex because your part of the same organization and you never make contact with them otherwise since breakup then what is the best way to convey yourself? I will NOT be initiating a conversation about US there. So thats not the case. But since he did the breaking, I want to leave a fresh presense behind that is not showing any of my feelings.

What really perks a guys interest about their exgirlfriend (that they still love) and leaves them fresh in their minds? Ive never been a game player or manipulator but I am asking for stories or advice or opinions hoping that it will help support me, that I wont freeze up or fail or fall apart when the moment actually comes.

And this gathering I would see him at is a place where we will have to participate in a group activity together. For about an hour or so. And in a circle.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Treat him like you just met him. If he initiates any type of conversation, don't be mean or nasty, but do cut it very short and continue about your business.

[SelflessnHumble]

Are you wanting to have him want you while you convey a nonchalant demeanor about it?

If you still like him: if you have to lie to avoid spilling the beans about the truth then avoid him.
Don't go out of your way but use common sense. Then again IF you don't crap where you sleep
you wouldn't have to deal with this kind of thing in the future.

If you're over it, it's business as usual.
The best is walking with a co-worker (male or female) and as you're talking to them you barely look at them for a split second and continue on.
This says you've moved on. Anything more than a glance indicates feelings are there; and he will take notice.

[thundersw]

Just another day at the office, if you get my catch. Natural.

[Aniphilia]

Selfless and humble, I think you nailed it for me in your first post. Thats about as basic as it will be. I am just wanting to keep my air of confidence and make sure he knows what hes missing.

I dont crap where I sleep, this isnt work where I may have to run into him. And there is still love from both of us but he handled things poorly as usual and I am fed up. You DO NOT ask someone to marry you after 5 1/2 years and then break up with them 2 months later. Thats just NOT NORMAL!!! There wasnt even a conversation about what was bothering him. Just faded over two weeks and wouldnt admit to being distant. Then a few days later a sorry ass excuse for a break up. "you are back in a rut! you arent accomplishing your goals!" your reading too much" ( i was between quarters at school) I have a whole story behind why he does this, but wont go into it. And no, I dont want to be with someone like this. But I do love him and right now am so furious with him. Maybe we can be friends. Whatever happens I know that I will remain assertive for the rest of my days and speak my mind freely and listen to my intuition and openly communicate on the spot.

And not date men whos lives are not their own. SOrry hunny, but your parents cant crawl into bed with us!!

[SelflessnHumble]

The thing is -it's likely he just won't give a shit about what you do moving forward.
Don't over extend your intention of wanting him to know what he's missing because If he knew how valuable you were to him: you'd still be together.

I agree this isn't normal concerning the proposal, but think for just a second. Consider he was just living a lie with you and
when he fully realized the truth: he bailed. It's not right but the thing is: some people can't "be figured out" by observation and analysis!

People with sociopathic tendencies can do this all day long.
Your plan to make him see what he's been missing can backfire when he shows he don't care and then 2nd, when and if you see him "happy" with someone else...

He didn't love you and didn't give you the common courtesy and respect to just be honest with you so that you could move forward with your life and find a deserving man to be with.

Manipulators, liars, cheaters and coward, jealous scum bags of death do what he does.
The best revenge is to live well and forget about him...How? I'm glad you asked!
By seeing him for who he really was/is: not good for you based on his lack of respect towards you and his ANYTHING but love actions.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

How does doing what he did make him any of the things you just said(Manipulators, liars, cheaters and coward, jealous scum bags of death )? I guess I'll give you coward since his reasoning was pretty weak.
He definitely didn't handle things in a mature way, and his reason for breaking up doesn't seem to hold water, but I think your indictment of him is way out of proportion. People change, feelings change and his feelings clearly changed and he didn't want to marry her and he ended it. Why are you throwing him in the same group as people that actually go out of their way to do wrong to other people?

Anaphilia, you really shouldn't speak to him at all. You are clearly still attached and any contact with him will certainly set you back.

[SelflessnHumble]

How does doing what he did make him any of the things you just said(Manipulators, liars, cheaters and coward, jealous scum bags of death )? I guess I'll give you coward since his reasoning was pretty weak.

He lied: He omitted how he was truly feeling: evident by the OP's accounts that what she felt was BS.
He cheated: He promised to marry her and to be with her until death, THEN? He jipped her out of what she had wanted the most: a marriage with him.
He manipulated her: Instead of being straight up honest with her (instead of stringing her along) he waited all but 5 years of being together, finally one proposes,
the other says "yes" (with undoubted excitement) THEN he finally figures out he doesn't have ANY feelings nor intentions of marrying this girl.

I lumped in jealous scum bags as well because they too (due to their own personal demons, and issues) will string someone along for the ride...
and then they will drop them without a single droplet of communication/head's up -that THEY deserve...

[BackUpOrGetStng]

He lied: He omitted how he was truly feeling: evident by the OP's accounts that what she felt was BS.

First, omission is not lying. Second, I feel like he probably just got scared and got cold feet, but there's no way to tell how he felt for certain, and of course the fiancee of 5 years is going to think whatever his excuse is, is bs. You only have one side; perhaps she is lazy and going nowhere or whatever he said, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't admit to it on here if it were true and since she won't elaborate on why it is he does this, we have no way of knowing.

He cheated: He promised to marry her and to be with her until death, THEN? He jipped her out of what she had wanted the most: a marriage with him.

This is just a ridiculous argument. It would be far worse if he'd gone through with it when he didn't really want to. People are allowed to make mistakes and their feelings are allowed to change. He should have communicated this to her, but this is nowhere near cheating. Cheating is inappropriate physical or emotional intimacy with someone outside of the relationship, this doesn't come close.

He manipulated her: Instead of being straight up honest with her (instead of stringing her along) he waited all but 5 years of being together, finally one proposes,
the other says "yes" (with undoubted excitement) THEN he finally figures out he doesn't have ANY feelings nor intentions of marrying this girl.

Extremely presumptuous. Where did anyone say he doesn't have ANY feelings for her? All I saw was "there is love from both sides"... Maybe he felt pressured into proposing by her and then decided that it wasn't what he really wanted. Using your logic, she is a manipulator, as she's withholding valuable information from us. I'm really curious as to why she doesn't want to go into "why he does this".

I lumped in jealous scum bags as well because they too (due to their own personal demons, and issues) will string someone along for the ride...and then they will drop them without a single droplet of communication/head's up -that THEY deserve...

How are you so certain that he was stringing her along? Why isn't it even a possibility to you that he had a change of heart or realized he was making a mistake after proposing, or just wasn't ready for marriage. We have no idea what their relationship was like and how she treated him. She's been extremely vague, and it seems deliberate. If he was really so terrible, why did she stay for so long? The guy sounds scared and confused, and he should have communicated better, but I don't think he's the scum of the earth like you accuse him of being, at least not without more information.

[Aniphilia]

Ok I wasnt trying to be vague but rather keep it from being a reeeealy long letter. The back and forth between me and you guys/gals is more like a conversation so I will say this:

He proposed after 5 1/2 years of a relationship
He has broken us up before.
He has a history of intense love then what appears to be apathy.
I think his mother has been a driving force all along in what he should and shouldnt do, with approval, with interferance, with guilt trips (shes really good at it) even he says so. And hes renting the bottom half of their house right now with his two kids. But the mother presense interferes even if hes in his own place.
I am not lazy, I left a career last spring to go back to school and i am raising two teen girls ( they get all A's in school and are super kids), i live on my own with no help and have let my mother live with me too for the past year. Last summer when we got back together (once again) we agreed to start anew and we set some goals, one of which was to work hard on our spiritual paths.
When he broke it off last week he said none of the work I did was enough....( attend rituals, study materials, practice them at home, attend classes of pathworking, involve myself with my womans spiritual gatherings, and so on.
That I was being indulgent in some mindless passtimes while we were inbetween quarters at school (a video game, an MMO game-30 days of play on my old account-worth that HE bought me as a surprise so we could play together, and reading a post-apocolyptic novel series that he was also enjoying till book 5) I wasnt even playing the MMO as much as he was- wasnt as into it as before.
He said he still loves me and probably always will. That I must need someone that wont want to push me hard.
I see that he may be putting on me what his parents put on him. They are finally showering him with approval(and guilt if he doesnt comply). He had told me back in august that his mother told him if we get back together it had better be vastly different this time. I suppose that means being successful in her eyes. I love his mom, dont get me wrong, but I am thinking that he was letting her be too big of an influence.
When he would complain to me about things she did or said I would say what I would of said or done but I never saw that I needed to draw a boundry and tell him that i cant have my relationship with him be in bed with her "good intentions".
I could settle back into my career as a therapist but I had burned out and when we talked about getting our own place I considered it but he reminded me that would mean letting go of the schooling which is to gain something I craved beyond taking care of others. So its not like I cant harvest dollars and dollars. Im a student and mother trying to invest in learning and aquiring new skills.
And you stated that i didnt tell why he always breaks us up.... its always something different. I could list them all if you think it would really make a difference in your helping me but I will say that whenver he ends up contacting me again ( usually 3 weeks ) then I find out deeper things going on... like when he was suffering from PTSD or when he was so sick he nearly died ... which led to the PTSD.
Im thinking that when hes not feeling euphoric, he things hes unhappy and it must be all my fault?
I am taking care of myself and gaining stride each day and continuing my studies academically and spiritually alongside raising my two daughters and all else that comes up as well. Does he think that he was cajoling me into pathworking? I wasnt doing it for him but we were really excited to do ritual together and did when we could get some privacy. which was rare in our own homes.
I am not perfect and neither is he. I trusted his process. I told him "why dont you trust mine?"
When he was doing the break up it was as if it was a stream that couldnt be detered or splashed in. And it seemed that he thought I was why he was unhappy and that w/o me he would not be unhappy anymore.
Thats laughable imo. Since it never worked for him in the past.
Maybe he is content with life now and feels he can work it better freely.
And is it true when he says that seeing me at the gatherings wont bother him? Did he only cancel the metaphysics class we were taking for my benefit or so he wouldnt have to face me or our friend that attends?
I dont make contact and never have so I am processing this all w/o talking to him. And you all are a wonderfull for helping to give perspective and opinions to ponder.

[SelflessnHumble]

Backup I understand where you're coming from.
Based on what I have read from her posts I don't truly see one right and one wrong side in all of this.
However you're correct. There is much more to this story than she's letting on, for whatever reason.

My definitions of scum are as such due to my experiences and the correlation between a combination of his actions,
my own and people I've known. Nothing is a certainty. I base my advice on observation...Should she provide more info, of course my observation can change.

Thanks for your insight.

[SelflessnHumble]

Let me see if I have this straight:
You've been in a bi polar relationship, one that isn't sounding all too loving, supportive nor respectful of what YOU choose to do with your own time: BECAUSE it's YOUR LIFE...
He invalidates your decisions, your past times, your hobbies AND your choice of study...He has demonstrated the appearance of love which devolves into apathy...
You suspect his mother has the power to interfere with HIS choices, and his life and even "makes" him feel guilt for his own choices (sound familiar???)

After all of this bullshit: YOU accepted a proposal from a character like this??? Oh Kay.
You tacitly agree that his behavior is cool...then you get pissed off when he does it again by dumping you after HE proposed? Oh Kay.

What is worse: is that still...after all this time: you are speculating concerning his behavior??? I mean really???
Do you not know how to communicate, tell someone how you feel and tell them how what he they do makes you feel?
And then you don't even ask WHY they do what they do, if they choose to be with you for all that time?

You are responsible for your failure to communicate: which yielded this result prior to him telling you about PTSD and/or other admissions.

You were with an emotional, irrational, damaged person who's been abused and STILL continues to be abused???

[Aniphilia]

I did not even see that he was acting like this from a pattern from mother. (seemingly) I just thought she was way to involved in certain ways like micromanaging. I like grandparents that are involved but this was way too much subtle work being done.

When he used to complain about his moms constant invasions I would ask him if he said such and such (in order to make a boundry). he would say he did yadayada. I just didnt see that he was bought by his parents (recently showed acceptance over the holiday) and that all of what he was experiencing was being returned to me UNTIL this past week! And its only been a week since we broke up.

I said yes to marriage (October) back before this weeks revelations , not after. We had talked about shaking off the old patterns (which were not all that bad) but in order to open up the paths we wanted to pursue together (individually). I do feel a bit like an idiot but am trying to use kinder ways. Gawd, when I really think about things we talked about in the past and add in my new idea that this pattern derives from, Its like discovering it all over again!!! i read a site of an authors that discusses all this momma and son business and I also realized how many woman know they are married to one.

Anyway,

I did make mistakes in not saying "Hey hunny, I cant have more than the two of us in this relationship so draw some new boundries with the mom and show me you are then we will talk." and things like that, and I didnt because I didnt see that it was so directly connected to how he handled things with us! I did tell him I thought they were way too involved in his life. (they want him to be successfull in the way they see fit but he doesnt operate like them.) So they have never favored him, only his brother. When she calls him and he doesnt answer, she calls me, then goes off on how she hates when he doesnt answer because" what if one of the kids has to go to the hospital!".. while she has a valid point, he can not always answer. And back on Hallows Eve I get a ring from her (cuz he wont answer) and she goes on and on about how the kids left their costumes in their vehicle and that my bf was so irrisponsible for not retrieving them... I firmly told her in a nice enough tone that my bf had gone to retrieve them but they were gone with the car so my kids were hookin them up with costumes and that they were happy as could be. And I tolder her that she had asked the kids to get their costumes out of the car because they were leaving and they didnt so they have a lesson to learn. She went on ( in a guilt tone) to tell me that the adults in the house (bf included) were responsible to make sure the kids follow up. I reminded her they were happy and moved it along.

I mention all that to distinguish how differently this 'way' is different than mine. My girls are independent and not overly managed. I made them learn from a young age their mistakes were something to learn from and helped them figure out how to fix it by asking them how they thought the could go about doing it. And help them with options. So his mom doesnt like me, so what, get over it, I think he must of been trying to prove something to them with our new start but couldnt do it or 'mom' threw some new wedge of a conversation in. It just gets at me right now. It is a whole new way of looking at everything.

I could go on with more to prove my points but the fact is I could be dealing with bipolar aspects or someone that has got to cut the cord. Isnt that what it is?
I go on like I wont have to talk to him ever again and he can swim thru his muck w/o seeing the light and maybe be miserable since this will only go away if he lets it, but the truth is, he has always contacted me and this time I am going to call it how I see it, I dont even want to think of how what I say is going to make him feel, i really dont care.

Bleh! I cut the cord at 19 !!!!! if not sooner. All my actions are mine to own and I do not get unsolicited advice from my parents. I make my own mistakes and if i fall i get back up on my own. I rarely ask for help and people get mad at me for it sometimes-not asking that is. And I dont owe any friend, lover, or parent a dime.

Paying rent in their house, he still is expected to do all sorts of things for them and for his own kids, upon her request and on and on and on.
I am doing alright, no sobbing or anything, who has time, I have to hold it all together AND with this new view on things Im still picking my jaw up off the floor. I mean NOBODY saw this, not my friends he knows not my mother, sister(analytical thinker), not anyone! It was well hidden.

[Aniphilia]

I wanted to add although it seems obvious to some, I dont know that he has any idea of how this is seen. He may be bothered by the mom nagging but only see it as that. His friends (which he never sees) are not privy to this. The mother of his children and her smear campaign didnt go over well so any truth that was in there was muddled with ill intent. And it was eons ago.
I feel like I was part of a political plot in a hierarchy family of centuries past, moved llike a pawn. Even though he is fully responsible for his own actions and a free thinker. Switching back and forth from child to man doesnt work for me. I am the one woman and come first. Ugh. hindsight.........

Ewe.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

First, my comment about you being lazy was just to illustrate my point about the thought process, not to personally attack you, so I apologize if you took it as that.

You seem like a reasonable person, but I think you're making this bigger and more grandiose than it really is. You taught him that his behavior was acceptable, so he continued it, and frankly, you sound codependent. Why was this such a shock to you? It sounds like it's because this guy is a complete loser and you were the best thing that ever happened to him(from what you've told me, sounds like you probably are), but it shouldn't be a shock because you said yourself that it's cyclical. I am rescinding my original advice to you. Do not acknowledge his existence if he tries to contact you. Don't say hi, don't smile, don't speak to him. If he approaches you, ask him who he is and what he wants, repeat as necessary.