What's Important To You?

[ChristianonLI]

I'm a guy coming to the guy forum with a problem. As 2010 has progressed I have attempted to re-enter the dating scene after a disastrous end to a brief and failed marriage. The problem I am encountering is that I am coming upon the sort of women I have always not wanted anything to do with. I fancy myself reasonably attractive and on a scale of 1-10 I rate myself around a 7. The problem is that I don't attract women of similar attraction value. I feel I am entitled to attract better looking women yet for whatever reason I don't and this bothers me.

Earlier in the year I dated a nice girl for about two months. She had a good job, good teeth, owned her own home, but she was fat. Not even slightly fat, she was what I would consider grotesquely fat with enormous love handles and extra fat everywhere on her body which I found quite unattractive. A few weeks ago I went on a few dates with an older woman who had horrendous teeth and just tonight I went on a first date with a woman I'd been chatting with for about two weeks now however she too is like the one from a few months ago, reasonably attractive face, good teeth but fat around the middle and I hate this.

I don't understand it, so I ask all of you. What's important to you? If the woman has a good personality do you care what she looks like or do you fall back on feeling as though you're settling? I want a woman that makes other men jealous. I want a woman that when other men look at her they say to themselves, "Wow, what a lucky guy, I wish I could be in his shoes," not "oh there's nothing special about her, she's just a very average fatty."

Is this wrong? Is it more important to have an attractive woman that accentuates your own success in society or just have a normal, average and boring woman with a muffin top who gets you intellectually?

[Infern0]

Looks can be important, but the girl i am truly in love with, i'd have rated her an average when i first met her, but now she is the hottest woman in the world as far as i'm concerned, so your visual perception can be affected by personality.

I'd say she needs to be at least average in most cases because there has to be an initial attraction, but be realistic, most of us are not tom cruise and can't expect to attract cameron diaz type women..

[VincenzoG91]

I guess that I'm kind of shallow. I've never been able to last more than two dates with a woman that I wasn't attracted to, no matter how nice she was. And I think that's actually okay, because physical attraction is a natural consideration. It's like, on a subconscious level, you are selecting a potential mate based on health and good genetics, for the good of the species.

On the other hand, personality, values, intelligence... are very important. There is no point in dating a pretty woman if she is hopelessly dumb, or mean, or treacherous.

But don't hold out for perfection. Try to find someone who you like, and like to look at, and see how things go.

I met my current girlfriend seven years ago, through an online dating site. To be honest, I thought that she looked very plain in her picture, and I was pessimistic about our large age difference. But the site said that we were 95% compatible (based on IQ and personality tests that we took), and we liked a lot of the same music. So I thought, we might as well go out once and see what happens. After a couple of brief friendly messages, she gave me her number and I called her.

That first phone call lasted three hours, and only ended because the battery on her phone was running down.

When we met for our first date, I was delighted by how pretty she looked. She wasn't really looking to date anybody, she just wanted to make some new friends, so she chose a really plain picture of herself for her profile. But she enjoyed our phone call so much that she decided to look nice for our date.

Over the last seven years, we have gotten to know each other a lot better. There are some things that we don't agree about, but overall, we are really happy together. In the end, that's what really counts.

[ChristianonLI]

The girl I went on the date with tonight is really sweet and down to Earth. We have a ton of things in common and I could tell through all the usual body language that she was interested and wants a second date. I'm not entirely sure I do, though. On the one hand I feel I should hold out for someone better, no matter how long that takes. On the other hand I feel as though I'm just going to perpetually sabotage things because of a delusional sense of self-worth. My friend asked, "do you think she'd ever do something about her weight?" and honestly, how fair to her would it be to go into a relationship hoping she might one day lose a few pounds? At the same time, how fair would it be to myself to NOT go into a relationship based solely on the fact she's a bit fat around the middle? I'd be completely trivializing all positive points about her personality, moral values and quality as a human being all because she's got some fat around the middle.

When I first started dating my ex I didn't feel she was very attractive but by the time I married her I believed her to be the most beautiful woman on the planet, just as you described who you are with, Infern0. Looking back at pictures of her after the Hell she put me through I see her as a far uglier person than she physically is, entirely based off the heartless way in which she selfishly destroyed my hopes and dreams.

So I'm in a bit of a conundrum. I'm sort of casually chatting with a much more attractive woman who, coincidentally, is completely vapid and has nothing interesting to say whatsoever as opposed to this less attractive, short and fat Jewish girl who has a ton of things to say and seems to get me. I don't know what to do. Pursue the better looking woman I don't seem to have much in common with for sake of having a nice piece of eye candy on my arm in public or the less attractive woman who I suspect would do everything in her power to make me feel like king of the world?

Why can't it just be easy?

[misombra]

i watched a documentary with guys that didn't like any of the girls they dated so they bought these lifelike dolls. they stay skinny forever.

[doppelgaenger]

Dude, you need to date more women.

I care about everything. If a girl is annoying or ugly or something, I just stop talking to her.

[ChristianonLI]

You're damn right I need to date more women. Unfortunately I don't have a prestigious job, I have a very small apartment and a jalopy for a car. I am starting to believe that the quality of woman I can attract is directly relative to my outwardly perceived self-worth. That's why the fake OKcupid.com profile I made, with a handsome male model who's a CEO and travels the world and gets tons of messages from the hottest women on the site. To prove my theory I then typically attempt to contact those women with my real profile and guess what? They NEVER reply.

But you can bet your ass my real profile gets messages from the lower quality ones (i.e. fat/ugly). It's really not very fair, I tell you. I'm good looking enough to get a 7 or an 8. I dated and fell in love with a 5 for Christ's sake then got horribly burned by her and spent months trying to get her back. I'm not settling again, but I don't exactly have a lot of time left. The longer I stay single not being with the one I was meant to be with the more that awful bitch wins. And we can't have that, now can we?

[doppelgaenger]

Stop wasting your time with dating sites. (attractive) Girls on there have completely unrealistic expectations and online dating is full of disappointment.

And I have an old, beat up oldsmobile, a small apartment, three roommates, and my job isn't that great either, but I still usually manage to get 3-4 dates every week. It's because I approach women often. I get rejected every now and then for whatever reason (I don't care) that's just part of the game. You have to be persistent. Sometimes even girls who reject you reconsider and end up going out with you, either because they broke up with their bf or you pushed the right buttons from the friend zone.

[ChristianonLI]

I wish I had your confidence, Doppleganger. Approaching random women is absolutely not a skill I was born with. It's weird, I have a very customer-oriented job. I deal with the public all day long. I also have a relatively set and consistent clientele that come in on a daily basis, some of whom are very attractive women. In the environment of my job and in conversation related to the store around me I can talk up a storm, I'm engaged and animated and quick with a joke, doesn't matter who I'm talking to, even attractive women customers. Get me outside of work though and I just clam up.

And the less attractive a woman is, the easier I find it is to talk to them. I've often wondered if it is because in my mind I am less apprehensive about appearing dorky or imperfect because of their lack of physical beauty, thus meaning they are less picky. On the other hand I have this silly notion that less attractive women, via survival of the fittest, were socially forced to develop a broader and more complete personality than pretty women who just have to look good and get virtually whatever they want.

The girl I took the date on last night is nice. She's intelligent, nerdy and makes good conversation. She's just heavy around the middle, the sort of fat that looks as though she's got an old fashioned life preserver under her clothes. But if she lost 50 lbs she'd be PERFECT. Do I enter a relationship based off our shared interests and similarities in hopes she one day loses weight? How's that really fair to her?

In my head basing beauty solely on weight feels to be the most unfair, selfish and trivial thing to do. But at the same time I feel I deserve a better looking woman when in reality I deserve NOTHING more than what I've put in and if attractive women aren't approaching me or aren't attracted to me, but fat and sort of ugly women are, then to me that means I am also fat and ugly and I should just learn to accept it, find a nice fat chick who's smart enough to know she's not getting that chiseled abs actor and be done with it. It's the mentality that led me to the marriage that failed and I spent a year freaking out over. The woman I married, as I shall note again, wasn't very pretty in my eyes at first but as time went on I ended up finding her to be the most beautiful woman on the planet in spite of the fact she was heavy, had less than perfect teeth and the personality of a stone. Now when I look at pictures of her I just see immeasurable ugliness

If nobody's noticed I'm awash in paradoxical dualisms. Is it wrong to date someone for the sake of having someone around while secretly waiting for someone better? Or just remain single until that absolutely perfect person finally appears?

[VincenzoG91]

I don't think that it's unfair to judge a person by weight, because most people have at least some control over their weight. Excess weight can imply other problems: gluttony, laziness, low self-esteem, ignorance, or even serious health issues like heart disease or diabetes. Then again, I'm a fitness freak, so I'm biased.

[ChristianonLI]

That's the core of the paradox, Vincenzo :-P I'm lazy and relatively sedentary but I have a decent body shape. I'm not a health nut or an obsessive gym rat but I'm not overweight. And all I really want is a woman who is equally lazy. But not fat lol. Is that even possible?

I know what you're all going to say but I feel like my time is running short. I hate being single and all I have ever wanted is a woman who just would accept me for who I am as I accept her for who she is. But at the same time I want her to look good and make other men jealous. Is this a case of "you can't have your cake and eat it, too"?

[justcheckin]

are you a dentist? because you sound like you love teeth... haha


Get out and date more. Where are you meeting girls? if you are a 7 as you say, you shoudl be able to find a 7 to date, or even better. Girls LOVE personality more then anything. I mean good looks will get you a look in the right direction, but any girl worth a while will know that looks aren't everything. How are you social skills?

[ChristianonLI]

LOL no I'm not a dentist. But if there is ONE thing I refuse to accept in a potential mate it's really bad teeth. I can deal with imperfect teeth. I can deal with spaces, a little crookedness and discoloration, but beyond slight imperfections I must put my foot down :-P

[doppelgaenger]

I wish I had your confidence, Doppleganger. Approaching random women is absolutely not a skill I was born with. It's weird, I have a very customer-oriented job. I deal with the public all day long. I also have a relatively set and consistent clientele that come in on a daily basis, some of whom are very attractive women. In the environment of my job and in conversation related to the store around me I can talk up a storm, I'm engaged and animated and quick with a joke, doesn't matter who I'm talking to, even attractive women customers. Get me outside of work though and I just clam up.

And the less attractive a woman is, the easier I find it is to talk to them. I've often wondered if it is because in my mind I am less apprehensive about appearing dorky or imperfect because of their lack of physical beauty, thus meaning they are less picky. On the other hand I have this silly notion that less attractive women, via survival of the fittest, were socially forced to develop a broader and more complete personality than pretty women who just have to look good and get virtually whatever they want.

The girl I took the date on last night is nice. She's intelligent, nerdy and makes good conversation. She's just heavy around the middle, the sort of fat that looks as though she's got an old fashioned life preserver under her clothes. But if she lost 50 lbs she'd be PERFECT. Do I enter a relationship based off our shared interests and similarities in hopes she one day loses weight? How's that really fair to her?

In my head basing beauty solely on weight feels to be the most unfair, selfish and trivial thing to do. But at the same time I feel I deserve a better looking woman when in reality I deserve NOTHING more than what I've put in and if attractive women aren't approaching me or aren't attracted to me, but fat and sort of ugly women are, then to me that means I am also fat and ugly and I should just learn to accept it, find a nice fat chick who's smart enough to know she's not getting that chiseled abs actor and be done with it. It's the mentality that led me to the marriage that failed and I spent a year freaking out over. The woman I married, as I shall note again, wasn't very pretty in my eyes at first but as time went on I ended up finding her to be the most beautiful woman on the planet in spite of the fact she was heavy, had less than perfect teeth and the personality of a stone. Now when I look at pictures of her I just see immeasurable ugliness

If nobody's noticed I'm awash in paradoxical dualisms. Is it wrong to date someone for the sake of having someone around while secretly waiting for someone better? Or just remain single until that absolutely perfect person finally appears?

I would be so disgusted with myself if I allowed myself to go after an unattractive, overweight woman just because they're "easier" to get. If I did that, I would be cheating myself out of my own happiness and well-being. You need to set some standards for yourself about the kind of women you date and you need to stick to that. Part of being a man is having confidence and standing up for what you believe in and your desires. Persistence and an honest efforts will eventually earn you what you are looking for. Never give up and don't take no for an answer.

[thundersw]

Dude I understand your situation, first and foremost higher you standards!! You're dating all the grannys in town and those fatty burger-style girls who had a drug-addict boyfriend who bashed them on a daily basis. How come you think you're "just unlucky"?
I guess every man on earth would like to have a Eva Longoria as his mate... but she's only one and i'm sure some lucky bastard does her and he's happy. There's no wrong in wanting something visual attractive.
You must keep searching and trying and avoid contact with your previous dates, they are no good for you rep.