nice guys finish last

[MynameisJesus]

I just heard this song by Green day

"Nice guys finish last
You're running out of gas
Your sympathy will get you left behind"

I thought sympathy and decency were good qualities as a man/ lover but that is by far the biggest misconception I've ever had.

I think that the key to being attractive to women is not trying to be attractive, not showing too much interest in her, being self centered and don't give a F about what anyone else thinks/feels

I used to criticize some girls for falling for extremely "wrong" men. But it happens so often that there must be a reason for it.
A year ago I fell for a nice girl from out of town. We hung out a few times and then I found out that she's with the biggest jerk I have met in 15 years. I used to sport with him for years and he has cheated on every single GF in his last 12 relationships.
But now he's with her and it's been going on for a year.

Lately I fell for someone else. As we got to know each other she told me that she has a crush on a coke addict who has kissed her on 3 different occasions. After the 2nd time he told her that is was just for once, and that he kissed other girls on a regular basis. She says she finds him a jerk but has a hard time not falling for him. She has even asked him to stay away from her because she can't stop falling in love with him even though she doesn't want to. Actually it stunned me when she said that

If I take a look at these two guys, I see 2 complete overconfident losers with no decency. But both have what I used to want.
And I'm not gonna try drugs or cheat on women to achieve the same goal

This is not some self compassion thread. But I want to know what I have been doing wrong and I think I know.
I used to be a people pleaser because I wanted people to like me. Bc I felt insecure about who I really was and cared if people find me an ass. So lately I try to be more assertive every time I have the opportunity. And it even makes me feel great when I stand up to someone and show that I don't just follow the stream. People are starting to respect me for it

I've talked to many guys on several fora about how they approach women and the main difference is that even though we both want the same (physically) we express it differently.

If I want to get physical I'll get nervous or tell her she's pretty or something.
Or ask her if I may kiss her instead of just kissing her.
The succesful guys I've talked to go like " I want to **** your brains out " and then smile

Difference is that I give her control - depend on what she wants, and they literally imply that they don't fear being slapped or being rejected, which is attractive to a lot of you I think

Even though that sounds disrespectful, it seems to work a lot even though most women don't want it to. Some of them have even told me that they found it disrespectful at the time but they couldn't manage to get this guy out of their head and have a mad crush

I used to try to do some cuddling and being nice but tbh I think that there comes a point where women are attracted to sexual aggression and no soft hugs and soft words.

Can any of you relate to this?
I'll keep working at my own insecurites but it's nice to know what most of you really think.
Your logic brain probably finds a few quotes in this thread offensive but attraction is not a logical choice, and apparantly it's frustrating for many.
We ignore the ones who adore us, adore the ones who ignore us. Love the ones who hurt us, hurt the ones who love us..

Some opinions please

[Fene]

Ever heard of David Deangelo? His books explain how Attraction isn't a choice and why nice guys finish last. Women are attracted to the traits that "jerks" have such as high self confidence etc.. and women can't explain why they like this guy, they just do. I agree with everything you said.

[Gigabitch]

This is a very effective way to pick up bar babes and get laid a lot, but it has NOTHING to do with having good relationships. Figure out which one you want and act accordingly. When you get tired of having a revolving door on your bedroom, you'll come back to treating girls right and it will pay off. You'll also change your standards for what kind of girls you go for. The kind that want to make out with random cokeheads won't really appeal to you any more.

[MynameisJesus]

@ Fene
Yes I know David Deangelo. To be honest with you, the fact that I never "got laid" at the age of 24 made me so insecure that I started looking up all sorts of stuff about attraction.
I've come to realise that being nice, having a master degree, working out 2hours a day, and just caring for ppl is NOT the way to go. I think it's all about being emotionally independent and showing it.
It's a pain in the a$$ for me to get rid of my nice guy - image but I refuse to be one any longer than today.

Please check out this short video about a woman's view on this. It has tought me a lot

youtube.com/watch?v=xY3yC4Z8sqE

I'll never ever be "the bad guy" but there's a good guy inside of me.

@ Gigabitch
Happy to hear that, if it's true. I have to add that both girls I mentioned are young and naive. And probably insecure and emotionally dependent. Once they get a grip and grow up I hope they realize how stupid they have been

What do you define as a good relationship? One that lasts very long?
I wonder how a good person can keep a woman from being bored. I want to work hard at myself but I just don't have a don't care - button. And I have fallen for bar whores and teen sluts several times before too so I am nobody to criticize others. Hopefully I will change as I get more confident

[VincenzoG91]

Jesus, you need to stop chasing after immature women who like bad boys and drama. A sensible woman who is ready to settle down will appreciate a nice guy, and the resulting relationship is likely to be more happy and stable.

[Gigabitch]

What do you define as a good relationship? One that lasts very long?

One that meets the needs of both participants.

[MynameisJesus]

Jesus, you need to stop chasing after immature women who like bad boys and drama. A sensible woman who is ready to settle down will appreciate a nice guy, and the resulting relationship is likely to be more happy and stable.

That is very true. But as mentioned earlier, attraction is not a choice. After 24 years without being touched I feel as if I'm running a marathon and see the finish line even though it's not there yet. I feel the social and personal pressure to have a GF and it doesn't make it easier
Opposites really attract. I've met many decent and sensible women before but I wasn't sexually attracted to them

Every other guy I know has had so many GF's before that they know what is good and what isn't. It bothers me that women of my age have already gone through this process and want to settle down already. I don't know how it's gonna work out for me
I've fallen for a lot of attention whores and I have no idea what it is that made them attractive to me. The last one just has a lot of sex appeal but nothing more than that. But the feelings I have are serious

[VincenzoG91]

Try to be patient. Women tend to be attracted to guys who are a few years older, and women these days usually aren't ready to settle down before their mid-20s. In the mean time, you should be able to at least do some dating around without getting too serious yet.

[MynameisJesus]

Try to be patient. Women tend to be attracted to guys who are a few years older, and women these days usually aren't ready to settle down before their mid-20s. In the mean time, you should be able to at least do some dating around without getting too serious yet.

Patience is what got me where I am now. Oke I can't rush things, I agree on that. But when I meet girls I tend to stick to having fun and avoid any sexual escalation if she gives me an indication of interest.
I don't even spot these indications because I have a reflex that says "what if it means nothing? What if she rejects me?.. " and it is a total pain in the a$$. I don't want to react like that.
Beer helps, but it's sad that I need it to feel free of insecurites so I can be myself.
Dating seems like a good plan to me, I date with friends a lot but with women I never escape the friend zone because I take the safe position of being a friend automatically.
The latest girl I fell for sees me as a shoulder to cry on because I listen to her when she starts moaning about her coke buddy

[Gigabitch]

The latest girl I fell for sees me as a shoulder to cry on because I listen to her when she starts moaning about her coke buddy

Ditch her. She's a waste of time, and so is that "friend" thing you're doing. If you meet someone you like, ask her out right away. For God's sake, don't put yourself in the Friend Zone. It's bad enough that girls will do that to you.

[Charisma]

I hate that whole *nice guys finish last* crap (sorry if there's some scientific proof, ect, but it doesn't fly with me). And I'll explain why.

Often the guys who say this have been hurt. I first heard it from this guy who had joined a dating website, chatted to me, told me he was single, but turned out to have been dumped by his gf who *he loved* who thought he was cheating! Next thing, he's saying he's gonna be an a**hole cos nice guys finish last. No, the fact that yous were in a relationship doesn't make you *nice*, because relationships need work. And if a gf dumps you cos they thought you were cheating, it's because they thought you were cheating, not because you were too nice.

Hell, it's almost as bad as the *nice guys get friend zoned*. Dating a guy is more complicated, and subconscious, than if he's *nice enough* or *a**holey enough*. The only reason I can think of for guys thinking this is 1) that women bitch about their exes and how horrible they were to them, 2) women will often talk about who they find attractive even if they have no intention of dating, flirting, hooking up or doing anything with them, and 3) women in the relationship with an idiot will complain about him to other people, yet try and make it work/try to find a safe way out. So while girls do date bad boys, they don't neccessarily ENJOY dating them.

I'll be honest about it. I don't think people can either be good or bad. That's like saying a person is capable of never feeling *bad* emotions like anger or depression-which I think is natural for everyone to feel so long as the expression of it is healthy-and that there are people who are evil with no capability for good actions/love/positive feelings. Nor do I think that they can be *THE* perfect bf/gf, because of personal tastes and preferences we can be aware or unaware of. I'd cringe at a guy who was a scientific genius who loved playing golf- 2 things I'm not interested in enough/good at. But I'm sure there's people who would love that. And I'm sure there's guys who would love to find a girl who loves music festivals, or camping, or travelling, but there's a lot of girls that don't. There's guys who love red heads, and girls who love bald heads. Hell, it's far more complicated than that, like social standing-how many millionaires date homeless people, how many working class people could hang out comfortably with people who attend the Golden Globe Awards, how likely is it that someone who only speaks english will date a chinese person who knows some english, will someone who works in the admin department ever connect with someone in the cafeteria department, will 2 dog lovers in a park realise that they also enjoy reading the same kind of books and same kind of movies, is someone more poitically opinionated than someone else, are they both religiously liberal, ect. So for me it's sad when people think that 1 failed relationship, or 1 rejection means that they are the most unattractive person in the world. It's not the case. It's just so many factors going against you, and it's unrealistic to think that the first relationship you have will be your only relationship that will last forever. Just like blaming ALL girls for liking other types of men is unrealistic, blaming ALL men for liking blondes, blaming all men for liking younger women, ect...

As for your case, it's sad that some women feel like that, I know there's a savour/martyr type relationship some people can have(similiar to knight in shining amour/victim thing). But don't think of it as those are the only girls you will ever meet. Think of it as a blessing that you can recognise their behaviour before really commiting to anything and getting into something messy. I'm sure there's people-me included- that go in circles with the same patterns before realising what's amiss.

[BEECATA]

There is nothing wrong with being nice, its a matter of lifestyle..

But if it is not getting you what you want, then study the intricacies of evolution and you will know how to play the game/system..

[xxazurexx]

MynameisJesus said: I've met many decent and sensible women before but I wasn't sexually attracted to them....

I think you are a hypocrit.

You complain and whine that nice guys finish last and are shunned, yet have shunned 'nce, decent' women yourself.

So why is it ok for you to shun the 'decent' women, yet it's oh so wrong for some females to shun 'nice' guys?

Have you ever thought that it could be, that the females you are attracted too, just are not sexually attracted to you....it's not about how nice you may be that turns females off.

I agree with Charisma. Guys who have been hurt, or who didn't get the girl, tend to use the 'nice guys finish last' line. It's better to blame something, than to have to accept 'rejection'.....

It's nothing to do whether you are nice or not....it is called 'attraction'. And we can't help who we are attracted too. The females you didn't and don't get, are simply not attracted to you.

There are males who I liked, but they chose not to get involved with me. But I don't blame it on the fact I was too nice....there was NO attraction for them...END OF.

[MynameisJesus]

@ xxazurexx

No offence but I think that you and charisma are making bizarre conclusions.
Yes I used to blame women for falling for wrong men. Yes I used to fall for wrong women myself and not fall for women who are worthy of my attention.

Therefore I am a hypocrite? Hell no
I would be a hypocrite if I said that it's oke for me to fall for wrong women and it's not oke for women to fall for wrong men.
I can't help it that I had zero sexual feelings for these 2 women who once fell for me. They weren't unattractive but they were unsurprising and therefore uninteresting to me. I wish it was different but it's not

And I have no idea where both of you got the idea that my feelings towards these appealing girls are based upon rejections. It seems that both of you have assumed this and based your comment upon it.
I haven't been rejected because I haven't even tried. I could be rejected if I did, but I haven't even had the balls to go for it. Because I fear to fail.

I might not even fail with this last girl. She has kissed over 50 guys at the age of 18 and she even brags about it. My logical brain hates her and finds her a teen slut craving for attention. But in some way she keeps me interested.
2 days ago I had a meeting with a bunch of close friends and she was there too. My best friend knows her well too and once tried to seduce her. But she refused and told him he wasn't more than a friend.
He kept seeing her hoping she would change her mind and he has no other feelings for her than pure sexual feelings. He has told me that he doesn't even like her as a person but she is so hot that it makes him forget about all her imperfections as a person. Yesterday we were having a party at my place and she was basically all over him (Quote "Would you like to lay upon me? It makes me feel more comfortable..") She lays upon a different guy every week for Gods sake. We've had parties at my place at least 5 times and it looks as if she sets a different target every time. If a guy responds she either refuses or has a relationship for a month and then dumps him, looking for a new conquest. The guy she's after now is the only guy in college who hasn't made a move on her and he's also the guy every girl is running after. He might even be gay

She posts these sensitive quotes on facebook like " I wish you knew how I felt... You are my one and only... " etc etc. She does this while having an affair with some random guy she doesn't like (meanwhile she has dumped him), hoping to be more interesting for an other guy that she wants. Nobody knows who these quotes are made for. While having a walk she said that her current BF thinks it's about him but it's actually about some guy she's running after
Basically she's asking whole her FB - crew for attention. In some way I hate it but in an other way it keeps me going. She is by far the most appealing girl I have ever seen but she is also an attention whore. And many of my close friends have picked up on this and realise that she is very dangerous to get close to

You make it seem as if I defend nice guys as if they are a standard to be, but they are not. I never claimed that being a nice guy is good. Nice guys are wearing masks to prevent showing who they really are, which is a bad characteristic. I never said that I'm willing to be one of them. A people pleaser.

"Nice guys finish last" is definitely not some random cliche line to used after being rejected. And if you disagree that probably means that you have failed to distinguish nice guys from genuine good guys, which is a massive difference.

In order to understand what I really mean, please check out the link I have posted earlier. Or check out Kezia - nice guys on youtube

[MynameisJesus]

There is nothing wrong with being nice, its a matter of lifestyle..

But if it is not getting you what you want, then study the intricacies of evolution and you will know how to play the game/system..

Edit:

I think you are mixing up being a nice guy/ butkisser with being a genuine good guy with high values