Girlfriend no longer interested in sex. At my wit's end.

[Incognito]

You obviously didn't read the past posts. He isn't the one with the problem she is. It would behoove you to read past posts before commenting, otherwise you just look foolish.

[RdHrshyKss]

oh snap!

[ftm]

Hi all. Didn't mean to let this thread go so long between replies, but it's been a busy week or two. Responses in line below:

Emotional issues are there and need to be dealt with and she is clearly one of those people that will take comfort in who they are and regress instead of growing together with you and moving forward. Too many girls will stay with people they are unhappy with purely out of comfort and her actions show you she is clearly unhappy with you but is waiting for you give it the deathblow. Then she won't feel as guilty.

You are correct in her taking comfort in who she is/how things are. She's been very plain with me in saying that she has deeply-rooted anxieties that prevent her from being able to change in the ways that I would like her to. Whether this is true or not, it's not fair for me. Seems like all of our discussions boil down to *me* needing to change somehow, but I've been more than accommodating so far. Frankly, a lot of her suggestions of ways for me to change have led to me feeling... dare I say it... less attracted to her overall. Less in love.

You know you have tried very hard and everything in your arsenal to keep this going. All the time and energy invested is the motivational fuel you are running on.

Damn. You hit the nail on the head there.

Sex doesn't have to slow down; simple. it's all about attraction. And that can be worked on.

Is she taking the pill by the way? (sorry if that q has already been answered, I just didn't have the time to read through every response).

You may have to change your approach with her, sexually I mean. Do whatever it takes. It sounds like you love this woman a lot.

She's not on the pill.

Trust me, I have tried changing my approach. Basically what I do now is don't make any sexual advances or even touch her with too much affection, and we only have sex when she outright comes onto me. She's made it clear that this is what she's most comfortable with, and it's what's least exhausting/disappointing for me. She's suggested that she needs 30-45 minutes of "emotional foreplay" if I'm going to get HER in the mood. This means deep discussions/emotional sharing with no touching. I have tried this to middling results. Frankly, it works about as well as ripping her top off. (Meaning: Not at all, unless she's already willing in the first place.)

would you mind explaining how the therapy session goes? or at least how it's been going so far. has the therapist given you any suggestions yet, or is he/she still trying to get the background on both of you? you had mentioned that you felt like the therapist was sort of concentrating on your past experiences before and not so much on hers, has that changed since your sessions started?

Thanks for asking.

We have been to... 3 sessions for far? I think three. The first two sessions were really just the therapist getting up-to-date on who my girlfriend and I are and our backgrounds both sexually and family-wise. He seems very focused on the differences in how sex was treated in our respective families, and, beyond that, the differences in how my girlfriend and I view sex. What came out last week was that I think sex is hugely important and my girlfriend thinks it's not such a big deal, and that this may relate to the fact that I haven't had very many sexual relationships, while my girlfriend has.

One of the big sticking points with my girlfriend and I, as I've related before, is her complete unwillingness to be even remotely "generous" with me if she's not 100% in the mood to have extremely involved, full-blown sex. She's told me that if I were to, say, come home from a really difficult day and say that the one thing I really needed was to get off, unless she were in the mood to have sex (which for her translates to being quite horny indeed) then there's not a thing in the world that would make her willing to help me out. She doesn't think "outside the box" sexually. There are times when I have been more than generous with her, and for her this never translates to her responding in kind. For her, with sex, it's all or nothing. The therapist, at the end of our last sessions, actually began suggesting that with us sex had been "put into a box" and that we could and should start thinking of sexuality as something beyond vaginal penetration and full-blown intercourse -- that there are ways for us to please one-another physically and sexually that exist outside of the traditional "movie sex scene" story of how sex is supposed to go.

At this my girlfriend got extremely upset, and that was how we left the session. She didn't feel better for a couple of hours.

I don't think she expected the therapist to go there. Honestly, I think she's expecting that I'm going to be told I am too sexual. (Again, my needs are not unreasonable. At one point in the last session, she said to me, harshly, "You just need to accept that you can't always have it three times a week!" at which point I replied (truthfully), "Are you joking? I don't even have it three times a month. Let's start there.")

---

A strange incident occurred over the holiday weekend.

It had been about a week and a half since we'd made love, which is not an unusual interval. We average about once every 2 weeks. Anyway, we were at her folks' place for the weekend and we were in bed late at night. (Two nights ago.) I had fallen asleep and she was on her computer. At a certain point, she woke me up and asked me, "Who is Jane?" (Not a real name.) I explained that Jane was someone that I work with. "Can you explain this?" she said, then reading a comment that Jane had left on a Facebook photo of my girlfriend and I, something along the lines of: "I just have to say you are one lucky woman -- Your boyfriend is totally amazing!" My girlfriend was visibly shaken. "Do I need to be worried about this?" she asked. I told her there was nothing to worry about. "Does this girl have a crush on you?" I explained that I don't know whether she does or not, but that she's flirtatious with a number of men and that she should take it with a grain of salt. My girlfriend was relieved, and said that she'd been freaked out by the comment because "Jane is really beautiful." And she is beautiful. Disturbingly gorgeous, in fact. (I may have mentioned this before, but I work with a number of really, really gorgeous women.)

Since this incident my girlfriend's demeanor toward me has changed. She was draping herself over me, coming up behind me to embrace me, affectionately touching me for no particular reason. It was like a switch had been flipped. Upon returning home to our place last night we took a shower and then made love in spectacular fashion.

Is that all she needs? Some kind of threat? Is she too comfortable? I had a funny thought -- to put a few other girls at work up to it, have them leave a few such comments on my Facebook as well and see what kind of reaction it gets. Of course, I would never do that, but it was just a funny thought.

Should I mention to my girlfriend that last week the two hottest women at my work invited me to go camping with them? (Of course I declined.) Should I be letting her know every time a woman comes onto me? I have always kept it to myself, not wanting to needlessly upset her.

[lahnnabell]

Ideally, you shouldn't have to resort to mindgames to get your girl to pay attention to you, but from what you just said, it looks like that's what she needs. That woman's comment was like a kick in the ass to your woman. "Wake up, you stupid bitch! You have a great guy that could run off and get any girl, yet he chooses to devote himself to you."

HOWEVER, I guarantee you that she will go back to feeling "comfortable" again once the excitement of that issue dies down. I would save that incident for the therapy session. It'll give your therapist something else to work with, and they can find a way to bring it up to your girlfriend to help provide some insight into how her brain functions.

Your girlfriend sounds as though she was never really taught how to take responsibility for her own thoughts, feelings, decisions, and actions. Seems like she has this view that bad things that happen are done TO her, and not ever a result of any decisions she's making. I'm glad the therapist was able to hit a nerve with your girlfriend. She needs to get down off that righteous high horse.

[VVhiteVVabbit]

Firstly I must ask how much time you two spend together. If you don't get to see eachother that often then most likely the time apart would make sex easy. However, seeing as you live together, i'm gonna guess you two spend a lot of time together. If this is the case, then it may just be that you guys spend time doing the same things all the time. Maybe just watching a movie or going out to eat and whatnot. This leads to boredom and is a passion killer. Try to do some differant things and try to suprise her. Be a little less predictable. Sexual attraction comes from the same part of the brain that makes you laugh or smile or feel scared. Put some spark in there. You don't have to take her on weekend getaways every month. Keep it simple. Something as small as catching her of guard by pushing her down on the bed or waking her up with a kiss. It dosn't have to be expensive and it can be as fun for you as it is for her.

If this sort of thing dosn't work and sex is important to you in for relationship, I certainly don't think you should just settle for a sexless one. However, if you do decide to end it, be honest about why. Let her know that you love her but the lack of passion is too much for you. If it can't change then you can't continue to be with her.

If she really cares about you, threatening to break it off will make her understand how important this is to you and may be enough to WANT to make you happy. If she responds in a negative way then she probably dosn't care as much about you as you might have thought and it may end things. Regardless it should turn out in your favor. Either it will bring you passion back or it will expose your differances and break you up. If sex is that important to you and she dosn't care enough to make you happy, then I think it's apparent you are not meant to be. However, I don't think it would come down to all this. It just sounds like you might be in a rut and things just need to be mixed up a bit.

All the best to you and good luck!

[Junket]

Damn.

Makes me realize how lucky I am.

[VVhiteVVabbit]

I decided to go back and check out previous posts and see that you are in theropy for the issue. We've all heard success stories about theropy, and I really hope your theropist resolves some issues for you.

It seems at this point a lot of gravity has been applied to the problem. At this point the problem is so exposed that what I previously suggested may not work anymore. Instead, all the unpredictible things you do will now be just the opposite in the sense that you are only doing it so that she will have sex with you. That is how she might see it. I could be wrong based on the information that I have read on your situation, and it may still excite her. However, I imagine the air around you two has gotten a bit thick lately, and she may really have a brick wall up now.

Crossing my fingers for ya bud!

[Incognito]

I'm crossing my fingers that she doesn't somehow pull it together just enough to fool the counselor and ftm because she WILL eventually go right back to her comfort zone. I hope ftm "keeps his promise" and then dumps her.

[RdHrshyKss]

I'm crossing my fingers that she doesn't somehow pull it together just enough to fool the counselor and ftm because she WILL eventually go right back to her comfort zone. I hope ftm "keeps his promise" and then dumps her.

there is a possibility that she could get her act together, unfortunately i just don't think it's with ftm. ftm might be the guy that helps her figure herself out, but i agree that things have developed between them in such a way that them sticking together would hinder her from actually making real progress. it's like she's an alcoholic and the safety/comfort ftm gives her is her vodka. my thought is that she needs to be alone. ftm said that she's been in a bunch of relationships when he has only been in a few so maybe she's just never had enough time to herself to figure out what she really wants/needs and just clings onto fantasies...fantasies that inevitably doom her relationships in the long run.

ftm, have you ever talked to her about her past relationships? what they were like and what became of them? just wondering what her deal is in that department.

i think the sooner you get out of this relationship, the happier you will be. there are plenty of women out there that can appreciate what you have to offer and make you feel like a real man .

i know you love her, and i give you tons of respect for still having the strength to love her, but sometimes love is just not enough...

[sookie6]

I think FTM has developed some kinda dependency over the whole situation...like somehow he loooves all the complications...it makes him want to thrive to find a solution and to come out victorious in the heart of this woman.

I do feel that FTM has maybe even bigger problems that his partner:

- his inability to see that her making out with another guy and refusing to cut ties with him was crossing a line you can never go back to

- his inability to see that by witholding sex on him his partner is retaining all power in the relationship and manipulating him

- his inability to see that her love making seems to be only triggered by female pride rather than love


based on the above behaviour this woman does not love him

Good luck FTM...I'm also sorry to say to you that if you want a stable relationship, the kind of grow old and support each other through life relationship then you are yourself not demonstrating the qualities that a grown up partner should show...

Your questioning whether you should play games in order to get the attention you crave makes me realise that you are both in teenage stage relationship, and therefore more gfriend/bfriend than life partners...

If this is the case I think you should just enjoy what you have the way it is without making any further commitment...at least do not plan on a future together the way things are...

I'm saying all this with the best intention at heart FTM...don't mean to patronise or anything + I value your total honesty in this thread, you never try to embellish your actions or anything, just painting your experienced and feelings the way they are and that is extremely admirable.

And again:

Dump this girl!!!

Run

Enjoy life...meet new people...do whatver but this woman is YOUR POISON!

[ftm]

Ideally, you shouldn't have to resort to mindgames to get your girl to pay attention to you, but from what you just said, it looks like that's what she needs. That woman's comment was like a kick in the ass to your woman. "Wake up, you stupid bitch! You have a great guy that could run off and get any girl, yet he chooses to devote himself to you."

Yes, it was like a kick in the ass. And I shouldn't have to play mindgames. I mean, I haven't been. And it doesn't NEED to be a mindgame. When I first met my girlfriend, I was shocked that she was single. Since that time (over two years) I have been acutely aware of several facts: a) She is beautiful and has a lot of sex appeal, b)She is smart, and c) She's got a great sense of humor. Because of this, I know that other men find her attractive and will continue to. So I haven't become lazy. I try to keeep myself looking fit. A try to dress myself well, stay well-groomed. I also put energy into our relationship and try to make romantic gestures when I can to let her know I'm still paying attention. I don't need another man to make a pass at her to make me attentive. No mind games necessary.

On the other hand, part of the good about being in this relationship, for her, is that she's very comfortable. Comfortable to the point where when it comes to time spent around me, she doesn't pay much attention to her appearance/hygiene, and doesn't put a lot of energy into ME, at leats not in the ways I have communicated I need. It''s always on her terms. All of this changed for a brief time after the Jane incident. I saw it in everything from how she related to me to even how she looked. Meanwhile, I've actually been getting more attention from women in the past year than I've gotten at any other point in my life. She's my girlfried, so you'd think she would notice it without one of them having to post on my Facebook.

So, you see, it doesn't have to be a mind game.

Your girlfriend sounds as though she was never really taught how to take responsibility for her own thoughts, feelings, decisions, and actions. Seems like she has this view that bad things that happen are done TO her, and not ever a result of any decisions she's making.

She's been in therapy on and off for many years. I am a strong believer in therapy being a very good thing, but I think that it some people it may cause them to be overly focused on themselves. I don't know.

Firstly I must ask how much time you two spend together. If you don't get to see eachother that often then most likely the time apart would make sex easy. However, seeing as you live together, i'm gonna guess you two spend a lot of time together. If this is the case, then it may just be that you guys spend time doing the same things all the time.

We spent a ton of time together last year when we were unemployed. Now things are different. I work at night, and she's busy during the day. We get a few hours a day together on a lot of days, if that. Sometimes more. It' rare we get a whole dya together, though.

I decided to go back and check out previous posts and see that you are in theropy for the issue. We've all heard success stories about theropy, and I really hope your theropist resolves some issues for you.

It seems at this point a lot of gravity has been applied to the problem. At this point the problem is so exposed that what I previously suggested may not work anymore. Instead, all the unpredictible things you do will now be just the opposite in the sense that you are only doing it so that she will have sex with you. That is how she might see it.

Trust me, I've tried doing plenty of unpredictable things. And, yes, you are right, she's gotten to the point where she percieves everything I do as an attempt to get her in the sack. She uses very clinical language for it, actually, whereas I tend to use phrases like "increasing intimacy." Because it's not just the penetrative act I'm looking for. I just want the physical side of our relationship to be more significant. It was once. It seems she wants me to touch her less and less, in general.

there is a possibility that she could get her act together, unfortunately i just don't think it's with ftm. ftm might be the guy that helps her figure herself out, but i agree that things have developed between them in such a way that them sticking together would hinder her from actually making real progress. it's like she's an alcoholic and the safety/comfort ftm gives her is her vodka. my thought is that she needs to be alone. ftm said that she's been in a bunch of relationships when he has only been in a few so maybe she's just never had enough time to herself to figure out what she really wants/needs and just clings onto fantasies...fantasies that inevitably doom her relationships in the long run.

Actually, I didn't say she's had more relationships. I ssaid she's had more sexual ones. But maybe I wasn't clear enough: She and I have had the EXACT same number of "relationships." It's actually a little strange how much our romanic histories run parallel. However, she's had sex with many more men than I have women. This was when the therapist was getting at when he talked about our different experience levels contributing to her putting less emphasis on sex as something important than I might.
[/QUOTE]

I think FTM has developed some kinda dependency over the whole situation...like somehow he loooves all the complications...it makes him want to thrive to find a solution and to come out victorious in the heart of this woman.

I don't think that's an accurate description of what's going on here.

I do feel that FTM has maybe even bigger problems that his partner:

- his inability to see that her making out with another guy and refusing to cut ties with him was crossing a line you can never go back to

She cut ties with him. He's not in her life anymore. It's over. Frankly, that incident is the least of our problems these days.

- his inability to see that by witholding sex on him his partner is retaining all power in the relationship and manipulating him

No, I can see that fine! In fact, I've been saying to her all along that she retains all the power in the relationship when it comes to sex. I am given no avenue by which to initiate anything -- complete lack of control. But the thing is, she doesn't see it as "withholding." It's just that when she's not interested, she's not, and won't make any kind of effort. And she's unable to see the effect that it has on me. On the other hand, when she is interested, she will make love to me, and of course I never say no, because why would I?

Good luck FTM...I'm also sorry to say to you that if you want a stable relationship, the kind of grow old and support each other through life relationship then you are yourself not demonstrating the qualities that a grown up partner should show...Your questioning whether you should play games in order to get the attention you crave makes me realise that you are both in teenage stage relationship, and therefore more gfriend/bfriend than life partners...

I *was* joking when I talked about playing the mindgames to get more attention. I wasn't serious.

That being said, I am well aware that this relationship doesn't have the qualities that it should in order to last.

I'm saying all this with the best intention at heart FTM...don't mean to patronise or anything + I value your total honesty in this thread, you never try to embellish your actions or anything, just painting your experienced and feelings the way they are and that is extremely admirable.

And again:

Dump this girl!!!

Run

Enjoy life...meet new people...do whatver but this woman is YOUR POISON!

At this point it seems inevitable. I'm still giving it a little more time, but I'm more than ready to leave if that's what it comes down to.

In a couple of weeks I am going back to my home state for two and a half weeks and I think the time apart is going to give us both a chance to clear our heads. I'm looking forward to the perspective that distance will give me.

---


We had a huge, epic fight last night. Long story short, I extended forgiveness to her for her drunken make-out session (which ended up, in hindsight, being an awful idea). Doing so was very difficult for me. She then said something to me that I misinterpreted. I reacted poorly, storming away from her. (Though not very far.) It's a terrible way to deal with conflict -- I freely admit that -- but it's something that I find myself doing more than I'd like to, and it always makes arguments worse. I'm working on that issue. She then became furious with me for storming off, and the fight just spiraled from there. In the end of it, she basically demonstrated that she requires me to always be aware of and sensitive to her feelings, but is incapable/unwilling to be sensitive and understanding of MY feelings even when they are as plain as day and simple as anything can be. (She actually had the gall to say that, because I had stormed off, the way I was *feeling* was therefore inconsequential and not up for discussion (while her feelings, of course, were). That's totally sick. And I told her as much. Not that it changed anything.)

I forgave her for what happened in March because honestly I'm not mad about it anymore. It was a stupid, hurtful thing that she did, but in the end it's small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff that's been going on. Many of you will probably criticize me for forgiving her, but I felt that it would have been dishonest not to. To continue holding it over her when I'm actually not really angry about that particular thing would be just about as bad as anything she's done.

Sometimes I wonder, though, whether I actually forgive her, or whether it's that I've just stopped caring about any of this. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

The sick thing is that this fight happened right when we were seeing eachother for the first time yesterday. The day before yesterday, I had had a huge family crisis: My brother (one of my very best friends) is a little unstable. He has issues that he's been working through for many years. Yesterday (after his girlfriend dumped him) he showed up at my parents' house (out of state) with cuts on his wrist, announcing that he was going to kill himself. My folks were out of town. My litttle sister had to deal with it. Both my brother and sister just went through nasty breakups over the weekend, and it was a volatile situation. I troubleshooted from across the country, over the phone, WHILE AT WORK, meanwhile putting a strain on my professional relationships at work since I was spending much of the night on the phone. It was an awful, awful night. I had called my girlfriend, near tears, to explain what had been going on. This was two days ago. Yesterday, she came to my workplace, talked about how upset she was about various things. The forgiveness thing happened, things blew up, etc. The entire night, she did not at ANY POINT ask how my brother was, even though any sane person would have realized that it was foremost on my mind. I had to postpone a planned call to my brother because of this fight the GF and I were having. After it was all over, I announced I was going to call my brother. Instead of finally asking me how he was, the first thing she said was that I should call from outside of the house because I tend to talk loudly on the phone.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

Sometimes I think there are some things she's just not capable of. It seems like everything is about her comfort, her problems.

I hope that I have enough money together to move at the end of the summer. I don't see this turning around. And yet I still love her tremendously. It's sick.

[girl68]

I haven't posted much in here but I read it all.

You're sick. She's like your heroin, and you're an addict. The sooner you realize that this is the most pathetic version of love many of us have seen, the better off you'll be.

At first I thought she was just crazy and you as the nice guy trying to make it work... now I really think you're just as crazy. You can't leave somone who is clearly neurotic, because you love her. That my friend is craziness.

[Incognito]

I just read post #33 again and now your current posts. Sorry ftm, I have to agree with girl68. You are pointing out how many things she does that are frankly....f*cked up, but then you always go back to how smart, funny, and pretty she is. None of those things matter if she deprives you of sex and has emotional/mental problems that she doesn't want to actually work on. You have fulfilled your promise to try to save the realtionship, and she is simply a bitch. A smart, funny, pretty bitch, but a bitch none the less. Forget the end of the summer, you need to leave now. If any friend or relative has a truck you can start now, and it will be cheaper. Rent a storage unit first, then use the truck to move your stuff. You can get your stuff from storage when you have made permanent living arrangements. Public storage offers the first month for $1.00

[Gigabitch]

Yes, FTM, there is no more justification for "giving this more time".

Stop. It.

[RdHrshyKss]

i'm glad you are constantly reiterating the idea that you are becoming comfortable with the idea of leaving, because it is inevitable. i wouldn't say that you are crazy, because that is just unnecessarily harsh. the definition of a crazy person is someone who does the same things over and over again expecting a different result. going to therapy is something different, it's something that you haven't done before and you decided to give it a shot before axing her for good.

i would say the sooner you can get out of this relationship the better. the summer time is coming, and it's a great time to meet people and have fun, relax and enjoy playing the field again! take the time to meet someone who actually matches your personality better. the girl you are with now is not right for you and you are just prolonging the inevitable. DO NOT let her manipulate you into staying! i have a big feeling that when you do finally get the strength to leave her, she is going to try everything in her power to keep you there. and she might be really convincing, but it will only lead to her dragging you back down again later on. the only way this relationship MIGHT work is in the distant future after she has figured out her shit and you guys have moved your separate ways. i really do think that the only chance she has at figuring her shit out is alone, without any guys to cling to and fantasize with. she is avoiding her problems and will continue to do so as long as you stick with her, and as long as she can continue manipulating guys. get out, and get out now. as much as you'd hate to realize it, it would be the best thing for both of you. if you really love her, you'll let her go...