Failed bomb attack on US airliner

[Mish]

I thought you were continuing to respond to this post, which was about the recent attempt to blow up a plane over US soil. Most posts about it were regarding the failed human matchstick.

Since then our discussion has shifted to "incarceration vs death penalty". With the post you quoted I was replying directly to this post you made.

Of course there is. Prison isn't exactly hard labour these days. Why should taxpayers pay for their incarceration?

I cited a number of reasons against legal execution and in favour of incarceration which included lower costs to taxpayers.

[IndiReloaded]

I cited a number of reasons against legal execution and in favour of incarceration which included lower costs to taxpayers.

Well, then I answered you. In response to my question: Why should taxpayers pay for their incarceration?

You posted this

For the same reasons why taxpayers pay for incarceration of criminals.

But its NOT the same reason. Terrorists are not citizens. Criminals are, like it or not, products of our society. But if I go to another country and break their laws they can do whatever they like to me. Other than the Geneva Convention (ha, and who will enforce it?) I have NO rights. That young man who got caned in Singapore? C'est la vie. You travel, you better be prepared to accept the situation you might find yourself in.

So, the simple solution then. Extradite them to their country's authority (which is often the death penalty, so its all good). Cost of a plane ticket is much less than 20+ years of prison.

[Mish]

Well, then I answered you. In response to my question: Why should taxpayers pay for their incarceration?

Because that's the lowest cost they can pay under the current legislation.

You posted this

But its NOT the same reason. Terrorists are not citizens. Criminals are, like it or not, products of our society. But if I go to another country and break their laws they can do whatever they like to me. Other than the Geneva Convention (ha, and who will enforce it?) I have NO rights. That young man who got caned in Singapore? C'est la vie. You travel, you better be prepared to accept the situation you might find yourself in.

So, the simple solution then. Extradite them to their country's authority (which is often the death penalty, so its all good). Cost of a plane ticket is much less than 20+ years of prison.

If they end up in a western country they are subject to the laws of the western country. I think it's obvious. If the country doesn't have legalized execution then they won't be executed. If they are subject to the country's legal execution laws, then they will have to go through the motions and the tax payers will incur above mentioned costs (And that's only one of the downsides).

As far as extradition goes, yeh it's an option. Though the western country loses control as to what will happen to the criminal at that point, maybe he'll get executed, maybe he'll get released.

[Mish]

A largely ignored history is the history of Spain 711-1492. The only thing we hear about in our Western history books is the cruelty of the Inquisition, which was almost wholly cruel and disgusting. BUT...the point that is missed is that it took over 700 years of intense fighting to rid the Iberian Penninsula of the Moors...the bloodthirsty terrorists of their age.

They actually weren't as bloodthirsty as you might imagine. In the tenth century when most of Europe was still in the dark ages, Cordoba the Muslim capital in Spain was one of the most advanced cities in the world and functioned as a cultural, economic and political center. The libraries and universities of Andalusia were visited by scholars from around the world and some like Michael Scott who took their knowledge acquired in there to Italy heralded the beginning of European Renaissance.

The Inquisitions that came later however were as you said both cruel and disgusting. People did live in fear of legal torture and execution by those who would later be rewarded for their "services towards the betterment of society". In contrast to the flourishing education centers during Muslim rule, scholars indicate that one of the main effects of the inquisition was to end free thought and scientific thought in Spain. People were executed for blasphemy, "performing miracles", for "questionable morale values" and contradicting the establishment. This was mainly because both extra judicial execution and torture was legal and widely accepted as necessary in the society. Such is the predicament of a country that follows a path of tyranny, the first ones to pay the price are the ordinary people. It's sad to see how quickly people forget.

[boobaa]

I just say: no comments... And thank God nothing happend...
[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8430612.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8430612.stm[/URL]
No, I will say something in the end... IT'S DAMN CHRISTMAS TERRORIST ****KERS,for fuks sake!!!

****, I don't give a ****. Terrorists killing the people of other terrorists, WHO CARES?

[Petit Papillon]

****, I don't give a ****. Terrorists killing the people of other terrorists, WHO CARES?

Oh shut up.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, here you go Mish:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/us/07indict.html[/url]

[Mish]

Well, here you go Mish:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/us/07indict.html[/url]

For the record I don't oppose this guy to be tried as a criminal or an enemy combatant, the two options described in that article. What I oppose is extra judicial, unlawful execution and torture suggested by some in this thread. Something that would undermine the rights of everyone.

[IndiReloaded]

I don't agree with a lot of Kit Bond's opinions, but on this issue I do. This guy is not a US criminal and shouldn't be treated like one.