How can I get my best friend to date me?

[Blakimus]

Yo Pisces I just wanna say, great stuff man. I dunno if nycguy will appreciate it but I certainly do. I'm kinda in a similar position right now only I have no problem spending some time apart if I can get the results I want in the end. She'll be in Spain for 4 months starting in January and I KNOW I can get her to see me in a different light when she returns. Technically I could still call her or facebook or whatever the hell but screw it, this is the perfect opportunity for us to be apart. Question though, do you think 4 months is too long? I mean, you were saying 2 months. Oh and I took her off the pedestal over 2 years ago.

Anyway dude, I really gotta thank you for each and every one of your posts on this thread. Your advice will not go to waste whether nycguy takes it or not.

[pisces7378]

Blakimus... 4 months is perfect. I only told nyc dude 2 months because I knew he didn't have the minerals for longer. I don't think there is EVER a "too long" period, within reason of course. I mean, if you disappear for 4 years, sure she'll see you in a different light when you return. It'll be something like, "You seem familiar. Did we used to go to school together?" But 6, 8, even nine months is perfect. A good solid year REALLY resets the old Friend Zone.

But DO NOT mistake my advice for a "strategy". This ain't no bullshit, "Do this and this, and she'll want to fcuk you." This is a solid life philosophy. You can't just disappear and twiddle your thumbs. You have to absolutely fall in love with yourself. Get into the gym. Buy the Rosetta Stone of a foreign language, and really use it. Learn to play that guitar that is in the corner collecting dust. Do something ****ing creepy weird like... I don't know, learn how knit or crochet. There's nothing more awesome to a woman than a man that is good with his hands. And what is more awesome than you showing up with some bad ass pimped out Rastafarian stocking hat, and someone asks you where you got it, and you get to say, "Yo, I made that shit kid!"

Anyway... maybe don't learn to knit. What do I know. But do SOMETHING. And make it cool, and make it all about you, and make it RIGHT ****ING NOW!

And stay the **** away from her on Facebook. Facebook is for pussies anyway. It is where cockless losers go to jack off and die. You'll see. It'll disappear just as quickly as it came.

[Blakimus]

Sounds pretty damn good brother. I been making a few changes in my life lately anyway. I been eating better, workin out more to get my ass in pretty damn good shape. I got a lot of interesting shit lined for next semester. I'm an acting major and looking to pursue a career in either theatre or voice acting. Next semester is key because I have a lot of acting opportunities lined up. Trust me, she won't even know me when she gets back.

You're absolutely right about facebook too man. Seriously, you really seem like my kinda guy and your words really spoke to me.

[pisces7378]

You're an acting major? I got my bachelor's degree in Film Making. Isn't that some shit? And the discipline of making films was an is a driving factor in making me a man. If you are paying $35,000 per day to use a location, and you have your three principle actors on location at the same time, and everything from Craft Services to the Teamsters are bitching about something not being in their agreement... you kind of don't set aside much time for nurturing someone's inner child.

[Sanctuary]

I mostly agree with what Pisces said (about how if you even want to have a chance, you should disappear), but I strongly disagree with:

You will NEVER understand it. It is the basic difference between men and women. Men think. Women feel. It is that simple.

That's just a bad mindset to have and is an excuse unto itself. You can easily understand how women think. You're just inexperienced if you say that. Just ask some guy here who goes by the name of Primo, he reads women like books (I might be exaggerating here lol).

nycguy, you can see that almost all the women in here are telling you not to tell her how you feel because you might screw up the friendship. And for good reason: they're probably right.

This time around it's different. This time I see as being totally compatible (and she agrees), and I see the chance of her being scared away as very small. Yet before I go for it, I want to spend some time trying to alter her perception of me, like I said before.

she doesn't realize that what she wants is right in front of her.

Bullshit, maybe you're 'compatible' with her but I bet you could pick out 10 guys off the street and one of them would be 'compatible' too. You should never listen to what girls say because like most people, they themselves don't know what the hell they're looking for in a romantic partner. For instance, quick show of hands: How many of you girls on this thread have dated a guy that was different from what you thought you would look for in a boyfriend?

The problem is not about compatibility but that you're not attractive to her. If you were that 'compatible' with her, don't you think she would have an inkling of interest for you instead of 'not realizing it' like you say. Instead, your love for her is blinding you with optimism and I don't believe you're thinking very clearly.

You're about to drive into a brick wall, I hope I can steer you out before it's too late.

[pisces7378]

You can easily understand how women think. You're just inexperienced if you say that.

You're a funny guy. After you've figured women out do you think you could help me out with God, the spirit world, Atlantis, and the land of chalk drawrings?

You don't REALLY think that you can understand how women think do you? I didn't think so. In this same thread you say...

You should never listen to what girls say because like most people, they themselves don't know what the hell they're looking for in a romantic partner.

So, women don't understand themselves, and are not to be listened to, but you and some dude named Primo have their number? Does that not smack of a little arrogance to you?

Now, don't get your dick all twisted over all this. I was just pointing out that while a committed relationship can be navigated to a certain extent, initial attraction is much more complicated, and any attempt to try to manipulate initial attraction can have DIRE consequences in my opinion.

Basically, I stand by what I said fully. Women do not THINK, they feel. And we all know this. If women actually used their noodle when it came to attraction, then how would half of these cave-dwelling, frat boy, date raping, chest thumping douche bags walk away with beautiful women? It's because the girl "felt" something: interest, confidence, excitement, etc.

Now, sure, three months later they usually snap out of it. It's not like women are walking idiots. But the fact that she isn't attracted to our fine friend Mr nycguy, is testament to her not thinking, but feeling.

But be that as it may... nycguy, know one thing. Women fcuk men that they are attracted to, not the one's that make the best case. So do not grovel, or try to make her feel bad if she doesn't go for it. It will just make you look like an even bigger douche bag.

I still think you should forget this girl, read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and get on with your life.

[Sanctuary]

You're a funny guy. After you've figured women out do you think you could help me out with God, the spirit world, Atlantis, and the land of chalk drawrings?

Are you really going to compare attempts at understanding human nature with abstract beliefs?

You don't REALLY think that you can understand how women think do you?

To an extent, yes I do. And for most purposes and practicalities, yes I do. It's a big claim to make but I read a lot about social psychology, I've watched my older brother (who was just amazing with women) and learned a ton of stuff from him ever since I was little, and I've experienced my own share of happiness and disappointment when it comes to women. I'm challenging your claim that women can't be understood, not you. Don't take it so personally.

I didn't think so. In this same thread you say...

So, women don't understand themselves, and are not to be listened to, but you and some dude named Primo have their number? Does that not smack of a little arrogance to you?

Then I guess by the same line of reasoning, psychologists smack of arrogance since they understand things that people don't understand about themselves.

And I said women should not be listened to, because most people (which includes women by default) do not know what they want. Even if they did, it's very difficult to convey anyway and would probably end up getting lost in translation. Go ahead and try to tell me what you want and don't want in a girlfriend. I bet whatever you say won't be an entirely accurate picture of everything you're looking for in a girlfriend or it would be difficult to interpret clearly.

Now, don't get your dick all twisted over all this. I was just pointing out that while a committed relationship can be navigated to a certain extent, initial attraction is much more complicated, and any attempt to try to manipulate initial attraction can have DIRE consequences in my opinion.

So you feel that you can manipulate attraction since you gave him advice on how to do so but 'initial attraction' is so 'complicated' that any attempt to manipulate it would have 'dire consequences'? Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean you can automatically assume that it's out of other people's reach.

"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Basically, I stand by what I said fully. Women do not THINK, they feel. And we all know this. If women actually used their noodle when it came to attraction, then how would half of these cave-dwelling, frat boy, date raping, chest thumping douche bags walk away with beautiful women? It's because the girl "felt" something: interest, confidence, excitement, etc.

What you say is pretty mainstream - men think, women feel. Except both men and women think and feel to varying degrees. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

Now, sure, three months later they usually snap out of it. It's not like women are walking idiots. But the fact that she isn't attracted to our fine friend Mr nycguy, is testament to her not thinking, but feeling.

Dude you are really stuck on that one idea aren't you? Like it's your magnum opus or something. Of course women tend to be more governed by and attuned into their emotions than guys - this is nothing new. But to assign cause for everything women do to the idea that they don't think and only feel is perhaps not entirely accurate.

[starbuck]

I'm really glad I met my husband in my thirties, because in my twenties, I just wasn't ready for a long term relationship. This desire to be free was a very well-thought-out choice I made. This decision not to settle had had nothing to do with "emotions flowing in the breeze" or however one of you guys put it. I just wasn't ready for anything nearing marriage and I knew it.

Waiting that long turned out to be the best decision for me, as I'm now married to an amazing guy, and there are no doubts that this is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. Did I have a few bad relationships along the way? Sure. But I have no regrets since they led me down this path.

Women may be more emotional than men at times, but we think AND feel. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You guys aren't giving this young woman enough credit.

[Sanctuary]

You guys aren't giving this young woman enough credit.

Hey, I've been arguing your side to Pisces the whole time lol. I think I give this woman some credit. What I mean to the OP was - if the attraction is not there, she can't think herself into it. That's just crazyish.

[starbuck]

Hey, I've been arguing your side to Pisces the whole time lol. I think I give this woman some credit.

Sorry Sanc. I was actually about to edit my post to say that.

[Sanctuary]

Sorry Sanc. I was actually about to edit my post to say that.

It's ok, I've made that same mistake so many times before too lol.

[nycguy]

But be that as it may... nycguy, know one thing. Women fcuk men that they are attracted to, not the one's that make the best case. So do not grovel, or try to make her feel bad if she doesn't go for it. It will just make you look like an even bigger douche bag.

I never said I had any intention of groveling or making her feel bad. If no, then no. I'll be disappointed. But I'll get over it. I just don't want to actually try it (at some point) and not have to wonder "what if" forever...

I'm really glad I met my husband in my thirties, because in my twenties, I just wasn't ready for a long term relationship. This desire to be free was a very well-thought-out choice I made. This decision not to settle had had nothing to do with "emotions flowing in the breeze" or however one of you guys put it. I just wasn't ready for anything nearing marriage and I knew it.

You guys aren't giving this young woman enough credit.

As I've pointed out before, this one is a girl who's very mature for her age. Not just randomly so, but it's a byproduct of how she was brought up. She's not like 90% of dumb college girls nowadays who only care about partying and drinking and excitement all time. She actually does know what she wants and she's very goal-oriented. She has a foundation for her career starting out pretty well. She wants to get married around 23-24, have a family, etc.. She's not into the whole single/freedom thing. She's had more of that growing up than most other teens out there. She has guys hitting on her all the time, and she got briefly sucked in by a few of them (the "exciting" but moronic types) a while back and she's learned her lesson since. She rejects most of the guys who come along nowadays, because they all have a tendency to be still too immature (even though they're older), and still act like frat guys. This doesn't apply to me. I have every quality she has every complained about others lacking. The only missing piece of the puzzle is that special spark.

[Sanctuary]

I have every quality she has every complained about others lacking.

And you lacked the qualities that every other guy that she complained about but still dated had.

Your infatuation is really coloring your vision my friend.

But hey, who knows, maybe it'll somehow work out.

[nycguy]

Your infatuation is really coloring your vision my friend.

I agree. But what can I say? Love is blind.

And you lacked the qualities that every other guy that she complained about but still dated had.

That may also be very true. There is just one catch to that - she's never had direct reason to ponder what qualities I do and do not lack. She doesn't initiate things. She lets the guys make the move on her and then she starts analyzing them. I never have (yet?).

[Sanctuary]

She doesn't initiate things. She lets the guys make the move on her and then she starts analyzing them. I never have (yet?).

This is why you should always make a move right away. Cause the longer you wait, the lower your chances get. Oh well, live and learn.