Very long read: LTR heading for marriage or breakup

[thirdtimelucky]

I saw someone say if you post a massive wall of text put bullets first so here you go:

• commenced LTR with a girl who was on antidepressants
• we moved in together after a three month trip overseas
• everything else was great, but the passion and sex drive was missing from her side I now believe caused by the antidepressants (ADs)
• after a year she wanted to get married and i wanted to wait a bit longer
• the lack of passionate feeling from her lead her to consider another life even though we were in love
• she broke it off after 3 years because she felt its just not right to marry someone you aren't passionate enough about, you need the right feeling and 100% love
• it turns out the antidepressants she has been on the whole time supress not only libido but also passionate romance (google antidepressants passionate love or similar)
• i want to try again with her off antidepressants and she thinks it might be too late

OK Here is what I consider to still be a short version of the story.
I have been in a LTR for 3 years. I worked with the girl and had broken up with my ex so started taking an interest in her. Her friend told me she was still heartbroken from a relationship that ended a long time before and that she had almost no social life and lived with her parents. She is stunning and younger than me (she was mid 20s when we met). I asked her out and we started dating. She said she wanted it to be casual and that she was probably moving to London for a year and I didn't think it would turn into much at first so we started out dating and a casual relationship. Very soon I realised that she was much more than I thought and possibly would make a great wife and mother which is ultimately what I want. So we got more serious, I fell in love with her, we talked about the options regarding her going to London and she agreed to be my GF.

Then one night a few weeks later she told me that her two ex BF's were very bad to her and that she has depression and takes a high dose of antidepressants. She also said she the break up was very cruel and she had taken it very badly (I already knew this) but also that she had major problems letting him go and in the end it was a painful no contact. I considered it, decided she was lovely and that she had been treated badly and that with me she would find a good partner and we might be great for each other. She also told me that she has very low libido which was quite a surprise because I thought everything was fine and in a way it was. So we continue the relationship and its great but her move overseas is looming and I started working on getting her consider getting more serious and modify her travel plans. After a while she agreed to not move to London but to travel to London and Europe with me for three months. The trip was great but at this point of the relationship I felt like something was missing. It was like it was perfect but I felt that I didn't have all of her heart, like she was in love with me but not fully in love with me in some way like some passion was missing or her burning desire for me wasn't there even though she loved me. Also her libido was very low but it wasn't a big problem at that point. Half way through the trip I could tell I was falling madly in love with her and would want to marry her but still felt she wasn't putting her whole heart into the relationship, it just didn't feel like it did in previous relationships, I could tell something was missing so we talked about it, I told her if she couldn't put everything into it I couldn't do it, it would be too dangerous and painful for me to continue. She cried and said "you have my whole heart", I believed her and was happy, things were great and the trip continued and I always remembered what she said and that she was "all mine".

We got home and moved in together into an amazing house and things were great. Her passion missing at times and low libido were an issue but we were both all in and thinking about marriage. I still couldn't put my finger on what was wrong but there were a few issues with my kids I was worried about and her depression worried me and I wanted to see what she was like off antidepressants before getting married. I overheard her say to a friend she would marry me if I asked and she knew I did but I wasn't ready to ask even though I knew I wanted to marry her one day (this causes me great pain now). Thing went on for a while like that and then I lost my great job, lost some money on the stock market and we moved to another city an hour away and both got jobs there. She started growing apart from me, living a seperate life with work friends but still quite happy at home although I was still getting the feeling she wasn't passionate enough about me and that I was losing her heart and i was getting jealous of her work friends. At this time we had a fight one day (very rare) and she suggested that she move back to her parents for a while so she can see how strong her feelings are for me and be sure we are right for each other. I agreed but then couldn't do it, it was clear I was much more in love than her and I was heartbroken. She then was also heartbroken, she was devastated we both cried our hearts out and I could see how much she loved me and we stayed together. Again very painful for both of us.

A year of this kind of situation went on and her seperate life continued and I said to her we have to either get married or break up. A few months later I came home one day and she said we have to break up. I was crushed and so was she. We both were broken. She couldn't sleep or eat or work, she was devastated but adamant that our relationship didn't work. She lost her job and eventually moved back to her parents house, both of us in agony. I decided I had to move on, so I went out, drank, missed my ex terribly and then a month later I started feeling a bit better and I met someone else through a friend. I was still in contact with my ex now and then and I told her about the new girl I met and gave her a chance to come back before I started a relationship with her, she didn't take it. I started seeing the new girl, she stayed at my house for a few days, the ex found out and became intensely jealous. We started talking again, she was incredibly passionate about me and getting back together. The new GF got wind of what was going on and walked away and I went back to my ex. As soon as I did she realised it was a bad idea! I made her try again because she made me come back but we had the old problem again of her not feeling it 100% in her heart.

We have been seeing each other and trying to make it work for the last few months. Tried counselling and a few other things and it didn't work. I tried pulling away from her and being independant to make her want me more and it worked a bit and then didn't work and it got messy then we had NC for a day and then back together. I decided she wasn't allowing herself to love me fully due to fear in her heart so convinced her to spend a month together with no issues, just trying to fall fully in love as passionate partners, not as friends. It was an amzing month, it was great, we so perfect together apart from her not feeling the intense passion that makes a relationship feel right. At the end of the month she said it was great but its not right and we have to stop. NC for a few days and I was reading all about love and trying to work out wtf was going on, then I found triangular love theory on wikipedia and it showed exactly what was happening. Intimacy love and no passionate love. It got me thinking and then I found an article on the web about Helen Fishers research wich has uncovered that antidepressants actually have this effect. Essentially they kill sex drive but also romance drive and passionate drive and close partner attraction feelings (google antidepressants passionate love). Her intense love feelings are blocked. I am sure this is what has happened to us. Only now she is convinced it is over and she has already worked hard to start moving on. I have shown her the information and explained why she didn't passionately love me enough and that's why it didn't feel 100% right but she says now she thinks it's too late. She still loves me a bit but that female switch in her head has been flipped that says I am not her man any more but she has agreed to still see me and talk to me. I am doing everything I can to get her to repeat the month we spent together but off the ADs. She is not sure and thinks it might be too late. If she doesn't do it now that I know what was wrong with our relationship it will destroy me. It's a tragedy. I just hope she hangs in there and tries again one more time. My life is about to be either a tragedy or an amazing love story. I feel like we are so right for each other but the issues cause by the antidepressants are like relationship poison, it undermines the basis of the relationship and is really painful for both parties.

So what do you think, will she do it? What can I do to help her make the decision? Should I even be doing this or should I walk away? She said she wants to get off the ADs but is not sure about us even though she still loves me.

[IndiReloaded]

The only one who sounds sane in your whole story is your new GF who walked out on you when the ex crap started back up.

Relationships like yours that start in drama will end in drama. Its not what you'll like reading tho, and you won't like the next part so I'll stop here.

Good luck with everything. Please don't have children in this relationship.

[thirdtimelucky]

ok i agree there is some insanity that occurs when love does not go to plan and hearts get broken. And on my part I have never felt so messed up at any time in my life, including when I divorced years ago. It is a very tormenting feeling to passionately love someone who loves you back but not passionately, it tears you up inside. but... I believe the root of the issue was caused by her ADs which she is going to stop taking as she probably no longer requires them. The reason she is on them in the first place is because her ex dumped her in a very harsh way, I won't go into detail but it was incredibly cruel and left her very damaged.

I glossed over it but when we committed to each other the realationship was awesome and stable in every way apart from the issue in the background of her sex drive and possibly romance drive (new research has show ADs kill romance/passion as well as libido) being low. She put that down to having a generally low sex drive and decided it wasn't that important and it really wasn't a big problem at that time and we were very happy and stable. The problem is that over time it doesn't feel right to be with someone you have very low sexual desire and passionate romantic feelings for even if you have strong intimacy love. In short you should be "madly" in love at least for a good part of the early relationship and sometimes you can't be on ADs. This would probably make more sense if you read about triangular love theory and ADs impacts on romance. Essentially its possible to be strongly in intimate love or companionate love and have low passionate love, many married couples are like this and this is what happens to many couples where one person takes ADs. I believe ensuing mayhem and pain and actions were triggered by this imbalance and unnatural state in the relationship and yes it can get pretty crazy when that happens.

As for the new GF who took off yeah good call on her part. After a month apart from my ex I thought I was ready and there's no way I was, if it ends now it will take a long lonely painful time to recover from this and of course right now it feels like I will never get over it.

[IndiReloaded]

Essentially its possible to be strongly in intimate love or companionate love and have low passionate love, many married couples are like this and this is what happens to many couples where one person takes ADs. I believe ensuing mayhem and pain and actions were triggered by this imbalance and unnatural state in the relationship and yes it can get pretty crazy when that happens.

Yeah, whatever. Keep on making those excuses. Perhaps the ADs had some effect. But the reason for her taking them in the first place will still be there.

Why do guys like you go for the messed up girl instead of the one w/her shit together? Have you read our Sticky about Shining Knight Syndrome? You should, I think you will resonate with many points:

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/love-advice-forum/26633-description-shining-knight-syndrome.html[/url]

IMO, if you were sane you would apologize to the GF who took off and realize she's the better woman. She sounds too smart to have anything to do with you anymore, tho. Good luck.

[thirdtimelucky]

The reason she started taking them was due to a bad relationship and bad breakup that she couldn't cope with. She should have stopped taking them when we were together and happy but she didn't because of the "chemical inbalance myth" (google it).

The other girl situation I didn't explain fully because its a long story and not very related to my main point (don't get me wrong I feel/felt terrible about it not working) but essentially she wasn't right for me (and no not because she was sane or didn't need fixing). After a few dates it was looking promising and then after spending a few days together it became clear to me we just weren't right for each other. She put that down to my ex getting back in contact but I know in my heart it wasn't working with her regardless of whatever happened after that.

[Gigabitch]

Your ex wasn't right for you either. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[thirdtimelucky]

Great Gigabitch you read my post, I saw some of your other posts you seem very good at this stuff! Unfortunately you are totally wrong about mine jokes

Anyway please please elaborate, why?!?! Seriously I am going through hell with this, she is an amazing person and so beautiful and I love her so much and its killing me. I have to either stop and give up on her or try again. She is saying she wants me to give up, she doesn't think it will work but I strongly disagree, I really think that if she stops taking the ADs she would feel different and it could work. What do you think about the research about ADs killing romantic passion, to you think its BS or that its true but doens't matter in my situation?

Our relationship at one point was nearly perfect and we built our lives together. I have never felt so attached to anyone in my life. Not sure I can get over this and I have definitely never felt like that before It just feels so wrong to end it and to look back and really believe that there were times it was so right if only she wasn't taking drugs that kill her itense reomantic feelings it would have been perfect.

I can't tell now how she felt about me back when we were together and happy, I remember us being blissfully happy together and her desperately wanting to get married for six months, she doesn't remember it that way I think maybe she was in love and happy to marry me but settling with regards to the other feelings that weren't there enough.

[thirdtimelucky]

I can't seem to post a URL but this story comes from an article on yourtango about the effects of ADs on love:

Lauri Ticas, 37, had been married only a year when the depression that had plagued her on and off most of her life returned. Her doctor put her back on antidepressants, Zoloft this time, and her once passionate relationship with her new husband, Julio, went cold. And not just the sex—when she did orgasm, the so-so sensation was hardly worth the effort—the bond they shared changed, too. It felt, she says, as if a wall had been erected between them. Even during her favorite time together—holding each other and talking for a few minutes in bed each night before turning out the lights—she felt like she was just going through the motions.

"It's like when you're sick and your taste buds are dull," says Ticas. "You can taste the food. You've had that same food before, and you know how great it tastes, but this time, it's just bland. That's kind of how it is for me on antidepressants."

Maybe even someone they once loved? For Ticas, that was the case. She and Julio even considered divorce: At one point he packed a bag and left—but returned the same night. They resolved to stick it out and now, four years later, Ticas is off antidepressants and treating her depression by different means (a pacemaker-like device that sends short bursts of electrical energy to her brain every few minutes). "When you're depressed, you're in a darkness," Ticas says. "Taking antidepressants takes you to a kind of dawn. There's light, but it's not bright."

While pills work wonders for some, for her, being off her medication means the light is brighter. The romance is back. And when the lights go out, and she's cuddling with Julio in the darkness, there’s no place she'd rather be.

[IndiReloaded]

One person doth not a relationship make. That's why.

She is saying she wants me to give up, she doesn't think it will work

This statement means one of two things. Neither good for you:

1. She *doesn't* really want you to give up. She wants you to try harder. Because she can't. Sucks for you.

2. She really means it--give up. Sucks for you.

I know we sound harsh, but relationships can be difficult at their best, with both people working together towards a common goal. Your gal isn't even interested in *looking* your direction, much less helping you move that way.

Running a relationship on love alone (esp from only one partner) is like trying to run a car on fumes. Not going to get you far.

Re-read that Shining Knight article with your eyes open this time.

[IndiReloaded]

Look, you really want us to believe that its all the drugs.

So fine. Here you go:

Yes. It must be all about the drugs. I'm sure she will be fine if you just tell her so, don't worry.

Good luck.

[thirdtimelucky]

I think what it means when she says she wants to give up is that she is tired of struggling for our relationship when there is an underlying feeling of wrongness which comes from the intense feelings of sexual and romantic passion being blocked. We have struggled against that underlying lacking key ingredient for months because everything else in our relationship is so good. I understand that she is tired but we only just discovered that all of this time we have been fighting a battle that can't be won with the chemicals in her brain. Honestly, trying to be as objective as I can the descriptions I have read from scientific journals about how this works sounds exactly like what is happening with us. I think I just really want to see how the relationship looks when she is off them and there is a good chance she doesn't even need them. Did you know two thirds of all people taking ADs don't even need them. I am just worried that yes she will feel different but that there have been so many problems in the last few months that it may be too late to reignite the relationship by the time she gets off them, if we can both even stay open to that happening for that long.

You are right about this sucking for me. I possibly should have bailed when there were signs that she wasn't falling head over heels, but it was so hard to tell what was going on, she was falling in love with me and deeply but just not in every way. I guess most couples in that situation would just end it because the feeling isn't totally right but in our case she didn't care, she wanted to be happy and I made her happy and I just thought that she might be a bit dysfunctional but she was happy and so was I so it was all ok. We just ignored the problem and continued on otherwise happy. The problem is this kind of issue eats the relationship from the inside out and creates a horrible inbalance, I know it just can't work long term like that I just wonder if that issue went away (and I believe it can) if it could then go back to how it was but with her having a sex drive and ability to have strong romantic feelings which would complete us.

[thirdtimelucky]

btw I will re-read the shining knights thing and I really am trying to be objective and consider all of my options, I have just been trying so hard for so long and to have found something that may have made a difference but after it has just ended (only three weeks ago the last time) is very frustrating. I feel like had I known about this stuff a month ago it may have made the world of difference.

and also an update I spoke to her on the phone and she said she also would like to know once and for all if that was a significant issue and if it would make a difference but she also is not sure she can muster the motivation it will take to take the difficult step of getting off antidepressants. Not sure how we are going to do that but I want to try. I guess I am just not ready to give up. She is giong to start going off them (with a proper plan and guidance from a professional etc) this week.