Apologists for Evil

[Gribble]

Then I guess the biggest difference between us is that I do believe women are capable of caring for themselves. Or at least they would be if they weren't groomed into subservience.

[Mish]

Rape should be despised. Blame should be laid at the feet of the attacker, never the victim. These statements cannot be disputed by a civilized human. Culture has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying that countries listed at the bottom of the rape rate list don't despise rape and lay blame at the feet of the victim? Are you saying that this can be sharply contrasted western countries?

Here is something to think about as far as rapes in the western world go




Let's assume shady countries like Saudi Arabia may have lied in their statistics, but what about other more moderate countries with better track record?

Turkey, India, Greece, Indonesia, Georgia notice all traditional and Religious countries. Are they laying the blame at the feet of the victim as well?

You're missing my point. I'm not saying the US has the best or the "right" culture. I'm saying that culture, any culture, should never be used as a cop out and no culture or tradition should be immune to criticism, even harsh criticism. Burqas and hijabs are only a tiny part of the equation.

I agree. Though if we are going to talk about moral implications of clothes why not talk about the clothes that we wear as well? How many children died in sweat shops to create what we wear? Should we also be frowned upon for wearing them? Or is that immune to criticism?

[Gigabitch]

I love how you cite statistics from authoritarian regimes and Islamic kingdoms and then think you can take them as the truth

How naive

Excellent point, my friend.

Turkey, India, Greece, Indonesia, Georgia notice all traditional and Religious countries. Are they laying the blame at the feet of the victim as well?

Actually, laying the blame at the feet of the victim is a religious tradition all over the world. It's only in progressive countries that women dare to report assaults of any kind, including rape.

[ecojeanne]

Its not ego massage, its the truth. Know what your problem is Eco? Apart from being horribly outclassed in this thread? (Giga basically called you an idiot as well) You don't know how to give credit when its due. I always acknowledge when someone makes a good point. You don't b/c you can't get past your issues that there are people who ARE better than you in this world in some things. If you want to learn more and be able to make better contributions than your baseless opinion, get an education and do something productive with your life.

lol to your ego response....but eh? to the rest...i'm actually able to acknowledge when one source is more credible than another...(unlike you know who..???have a guess)

overall lol indi you're so predictable. read back, that’s if you can understand English anymore, what is going on with your reading skills lately?!.....oblivion doesn’t even begin to describe it, dreary dear

anyway back to the subject of the thread; who gives a fck what some english dude says about this bullshit, coz it is bullshit to sit there and make judgements about a subject that doesn't have to do with him coz as mish so rightly puts it how many millions wear clothes made from slave labor to save a few bucks, unlike myself where i sit piously on my throne with my fairtrade clothing

[Mish]

Actually, laying the blame at the feet of the victim is a religious tradition all over the world. It's only in progressive countries that women dare to report assaults of any kind, including rape.

Okay, I provided a lot of references for my posts, do you have a credible reference that supports that? Do you have a reference that says that for example there are less commited rapes being reported per capita in India than in US?

Judging by the above, South Africa must be the most empowered country in the world seeing how many women dare to report rape (As opposed to it being the rape capital of the world as it is known)

[Gigabitch]

Yes, I do, and I will post them soon. Right now, I'm in the middle of finals. I promise I'm not trying to weasel out of the conversation.

[Asip4u]

There are a lot of strong women out there i definitely agree with that Gribble. Rules though, are still important to keep our ladies safe! Here is something that makes me think of strength and good in some of us.

Yugoslavia (1992)...I'm playing soccer in the backyard and all of a sudden there's like 3 soldiers coming out of the forest...I'm just standing there and this guy tells me to head towards the school. I grabbed my mom and bro and we left...My father stayed with them and as i turned back one more time i noticed them talking...When we reached the school there were so many families there already...They told us to go inside...I thought this was it...

During this time a woman that was with us started complaining about her son being outside and she started yelling at the soldier and somehow after a lot of arguing he just let her go. Throughout our time during war this woman was so strong...She helped the sick, injured..anybody who needed it..with no fear for her life! At one point she said.."If you are going to kill me, just do it already"..

After seeing that men were not going to come back (they were taken to torture camps), we were told to go home. When we got there, they stole everything they could..The whole place was turned upside down...We got together with a few other families and got into one house with an underground. We were there for a few weeks with not much food.

People kept coming back with news of sons dying and such...Some tried to escape the camp and others who already went to battle before were killed. Some of these guys were just teenagers...Imagine having a knife and maybe a gun..If you were lucky and had a rifle it was almost like you had a bazooka cause many people didn't have much...and you are going against tanks, ak-47 and so on..what much of a chance do you got?..But these guys were so brave and wanted to protect their families at all cost.

[vashti]

Asip! I had no idea how interesting (and terrifying) your life has been. Thanks.

[ecojeanne]

so true! wow Asip, thanks

[IndiReloaded]

P.S. I'm shocked at Canada's position in rape statistics. Indi, BS, care to comment?

Mish's post doesn't breakdown how 'violent crime' is defined. Its not just rape and murder, so his post is essentially useless for the point he's trying to make.

That said, Canada used to have a much lower CR than US, but that has been shifting in last 5-10 years. More severe punishments in US, combined with a shift in gang activity (a lot of that percent can be attributed directly to Vancouver, Toronto & Montreal). The harsher drug trafficking penalties have caused a shift in illegal imports from SA & Mexico to come into Vancouver. Its a problem. RCMP is in the process of hiring 60000 new officers to increase enforcement, as well as new task force units to deal specifically with gang-related crime.

The other thing that's weird about Mish's post is that Sweden is consistently in the Top 3 best countries to live in. So is Canada.

Hope that answers your question.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_Canada[/url]

EDIT - Actually, I just checked those numbers (sorry, compulsive that way) and they are way off for Canada. According to Statistics Canada (whose last update was 2008), the number of violent crimes reported in Canada was 932 total. Of that, 75 were sexual assault/other sexual offenses (per 100000 people). Much different from the numbers Mish's source posted. DM is probably correct that they are inflated for deliberate bias.

[url]http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal04a-eng.htm[/url]

[IndiReloaded]

lol to your ego response....but eh? to the rest...i'm actually able to acknowledge when one source is more credible than another...(unlike you know who..???have a guess)

overall lol indi you're so predictable. read back, that’s if you can understand English anymore, what is going on with your reading skills lately?!.....oblivion doesn’t even begin to describe it, dreary dear

I don't need to read back on your posts. You are an idiot. You have nothing intelligent to say. Asip's comment was to me and not to you. MYOB next time.

[Asip4u]

After we were told that it was safe..We come out and there's like bullet holes in every house, broken windows, some roofs were badly damaged..Within a short time they told us we were going to be leaving for this city (near border with Croatia).

We got into buses and didn't really think we were safe. People kept panicing...After getting there, we got off and their soldiers started robbing us, taking whatever they thought was valuable..I remember one of the ladies had this necklace and pulled away from a soldier when he tried to grab it and started running...The thing is, the bastards had snipers up in the mountains so a lot people including her got shot..

So we started running and I remember seeing so many bodies by the road..some of them stank badly...So i just focused on running....When i got down, i waited for my mom and brother but they didn't show up for a long time...Now when i say hill, this is a long road going down..basically you are talking miles and miles..I didn't think i would make it and still think it's a miracle.

We got to Croatia after spending some days in the city called Travnik. There we waited for my dad to be sent home..Or to hear the news that he was dead..which happened a lot. He was there for six months and when he came back and told us all the horrible stories they did to people...One of them (a person tied one leg to a tree and the other they pulled it with some machine..basically they split the guy...After hearing all the things that happened to people in those camps, i knew we had it a lot easier. So now i think about what i have and try to appreciate even the smallest things...suffering teaches you a lot..and some get it even if they never suffered and others never truly get it.

Asip! I had no idea how interesting (and terrifying) your life has been. Thanks.

[IndiReloaded]

Canada take a lot of immigrants, especially from disturbed areas. I've always been proud of Canada that way. I think only Australia rates are higher in the international listings. Yugoslavs are in the top 10 ethnicities accepted, I think.

[ecojeanne]

I don't need to read back on your posts. You are an idiot. You have nothing intelligent to say. Asip's comment was to me and not to you. MYOB next time.

lol no, coz it's so much fun pointing out your flaws, carry on lovey

[ecojeanne]

After we were told that it was safe..We come out and there's like bullet holes in every house, broken windows, some roofs were badly damaged..Within a short time they told us we were going to be leaving for this city (near border with Croatia).

We got into buses and didn't really think we were safe. People kept panicing...After getting there, we got off and their soldiers started robbing us, taking whatever they thought was valuable..I remember one of the ladies had this necklace and pulled away from a soldier when he tried to grab it and started running...The thing is, the bastards had snipers up in the mountains so a lot people including her got shot..

So we started running and I remember seeing so many bodies by the road..some of them stank badly...So i just focused on running....When i got down, i waited for my mom and brother but they didn't show up for a long time...Now when i say hill, this is a long road going down..basically you are talking miles and miles..I didn't think i would make it and still think it's a miracle.

We got to Croatia after spending some days in the city called Travnik. There we waited for my dad to be sent home..Or to hear the news that he was dead..which happened a lot. He was there for six months and when he came back and told us all the horrible stories they did to people...One of them (a person tied one leg to a tree and the other they pulled it with some machine..basically they split the guy...After hearing all the things that happened to people in those camps, i knew we had it a lot easier. So now i think about what i have and try to appreciate even the smallest things...suffering teaches you a lot..and some get it even if they never suffered and others never truly get it.

oh man Asip you really went thru a lot. you are so strong to still be able to appreciate.