which side?

[KirstyM]

Still not giving me anything. Most small businesses like me don't deal with any tax except sales tax. They pay employees cash, make money orders for product instead of depositing, they simply don't pay nearly as much as they should be and they get away with it. Personally, I'd rather be legitimate and pay the taxes, but as I said before how much the taxes are are pretty much the only difference to me when it comes to who's in office and that difference itself is pretty negligable. I'll admit to you freely nomas, I ignored most of your post. Once you mentioned deficit spending and I saw the term Cold War used in there I stopped reading. I'll put it simply as I can. I DON'T CARE!!!

Arguments dont get far if you're unwilling to even read a simple reply.

[BillyGalbreath]

Die Government Die !!!

[Fawn]

In agreement with Billy. lmao!

I'm in canada and I am the legal age to vote (its 18yr/old here). Although I've chosen to stay away from politics since all I tend to see is fighting, bickering and backstabbing among party members.

Especially since my own city has the WORST members in history and has had constant problems legally within there own cabinet. Then they lie to the public, then it gets out that they lied and then they get sued again. lol.

[Zekk_T_Strife]

Arguments dont get far if you're unwilling to even read a simple reply.

Then listen to mine and quit shoveling garbage about politics at me.

[nomas]

Then listen to mine and quit shoveling garbage about politics at me.

Did you read this? I don't think I even have to comment on this?

I don't know how to quote different posts, but I'll try..don't know if it will work:

...if you feel that conservatives and liberals both share equal amounts of media coverage then you do not look at the media.

So you do you follow the political media closely enough to know the disparity of media coverage? Interesting behavior for someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about politics.

But your contradictory posts are not what I'm really trying to expose here. My biggest thing was to get out there the fact that politics DO affect us all. I'm not saying we have a lot of control over it, but that's because there is a lot of apathy among a society who is not oppressed. Since there is a strong middle class here in the States, a high standard of living, we're content and adopt carefree mentalities. I admit to it myself, or else I'd be much more vocal about the issues..but I am not. I simply post here because it's easy enough for me to post my opinions and what I feel are the FACTS. I think dictionary definitions do little to prove a point because verbal communication is imperfect enough that we go about it in an informal manner anyway. So if I didn't use the most correct terms, I apologize if it confused you...but I think most people know what I was referring to when I use words like "politician" and "leader"...and, somehow, I think you knew what I meant too, Zekk, am I right?

Freddie

[BillyGalbreath]

now kids ! stop fighting... you're scaring away the women !

[nomas]

Agreed. Let's stop talking about politics.

Let's talk about something less contraversial...

Religion anyone?

Ha ha..just kidding. We all know raverism is the fastest growing, only true cult:

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/showthread.php?t=3523&page=14&pp=15[/url]

Freddie..

[Zekk_T_Strife]

So you do you follow the political media closely enough to know the disparity of media coverage? Interesting behavior for someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about politics.

Being aware of one's surroundings and what's happening in the media and caring about said media are two entirely different things. The simple fact of the matter is, I don't care, I don't need to care, and most importantly you won't be able to say anything to make me care. I learned early in studying the Laws of Power that arguments achieve nothing. You can prove a point, you can prove someone wrong, but that doesn't mean you've won or achieved anything worth any merit. Actions are the only way to unconditionally prove a point to someone. Until the entire structure and function of politics SHOWS me that there is a reason to care in the slightest about its dealings, I'll remain indifferent to the activities of such pedantic fools.

[nomas]

I am not after any merits for proving anything...it was never my objective. I simply stated my opinion, was challenged and we went back and forth on it, but unlike you, Zekk, I believe that one's mind CAN be swayed when presented with logical arguments. At least I would attest to having the open mindedness to accept arguments and if they are irrefutable then I consider a change in my position philosophy. You may call it being gullible, but I call it being close minded to say that no matter how much you prove something I still won’t believe it.

That’s IT. I’m not trying to make you care. Honestly I don’t care if you care whether I care that you don’t care or not. Heh, heh..

Freddie

[BillyGalbreath]

...That’s IT. I’m not trying to make you care. Honestly I don’t care if you care whether I care that you don’t care or not. Heh, heh..

Brillant !!

[nomas]

Thanks, Bill,

Hey..hella activity going on right now..I'll have to remember Tuesdays at noon my time is a "peak" time...maybe..

Freddie

[BillyGalbreath]

nah - this kind of activity comes and goes - there is no "dedicated" peak time... I've been here since april and nothing repeats...

[Zekk_T_Strife]

This website gives me problems when I'm at work. Not any other one just this site. I think it and my laptop like to fight.

Anywho, I'm not saying that I refuse to accept a logical argument. Nor am I saying you can't be swayed by an equally logical argument. What I AM saying is arguments and words alone stir up more resentment than the final results are worth. Look at it this way. The thing we are arguing about is entirely subjective. It isn't something you can look up and say "Here, see? This IS right." Without there being a concrete black and white explanation to a debate then opinions get involved. When one's opinions get involved then emotions tend to get involved as well. When emotions flare in an argument everyone ends up frustrated with the ordeal, has a bad taste in their mouth and goes home and beats their children. Is it this extreme? Nah. But when you can talk all day and get nowhere you can much more effectively prove your point through actions, physical proof. Words are simply that, words. We all have power to convey them. What makes the power of one persons word greater than anothers? Nothing at all. The listener decides to believe what he hears. But if something is SHOWN to them, proven to them through action, something tangible, how can they refute it? They are not only forced but are many times WILLING to change their minds after SEEING such a thing take place. Arguments are obonoxious, but demonstrations are enlightening. Call it closemindedness if you want, I'm just discussing the nature of debate and how ineffective words can be.

I would also like to point out I've had the theme to King of the Hill stuck in my head all day for NO REASON. Please oh please someone make it end.

[nomas]

BATMAN..TADADADADADADADADA...BATMAN...TADADADADADA DADADADADA..BATMAN, BATMAN, BATMAN..TADADADADADADADADADADADADA.

You're welcome.
Freddie

[nomas]

Now to the real reply.

The thing was, Zekk, I WAS trying to prove an actual point is verifyable on paper. This point being that we are affected by political decisions. ALL of us. But maybe we were argueing apples and oranges. Maybe you thought this whole time that I was saying politics are important and that you should care. While that is just an opinion, that is NOT verifyable, that wasn't waht I was passionate about proving. And I should point out that I have also thought that it is very much a matter of opinion whether we believe what people tell us, what's reported, what is even shown on video because forging is easy these days, and when it's "he said, she said," then who's to say who's telling the truth? Even if we both witness something we'll have different takes on the matter. True enough...but, personally, I like to be as informed as I can and there will be two sides to every story. If I can, I look at both and then realize that the truth probably lies somewhere between the two.

Oh yes, we're complex creatures..but anything is as complicated or as simple as we want it to be.

But I am also tired of going back and forth on this. I detect a note of fatigue on you as well. I agree that we disagree and that's that. Not that this was a competition, but I claim stalemate.

Freddie