Depressing Situation

[Groen]

This will be a re-post from another forum, however I'm still looking for other input.

I've come to this site seeking anonymous advice and guidance, so let me start this story from the beginning.

I moved out to school finally, my second year of university and I'm out of my hometown and living on my own. I have many friends from high school and freshman year who attend school with me and live in close proximity to my dorm.

One girl I knew from high school is attending here, and up until this year I had not gotten to know her at all. She's dated a friend off and on for about 16 months, but their relationship recently came to an end. Her boyfriend recently became a huge prick due to her moving away, he's always been a stubborn and self-righteous person.

He ended the relationship with her out of the blue, and she was left upset and wondering why.

Just before the split, I began spending a large portion of my time in her presence. We always get along, have identical tastes in everything from music to cinema and there is never an uncomfortable moment between us, we're both very open people.

I took her side in this break up, I was genuinely angry at my friend for putting her through this. Our friendship has weakened greatly from it, and frankly it does not upset me because of the massive change he has undergone this last year.

Unfortunately, it was around this time that I realized I was developing feelings for this girl. I've had previous relationships, but nothing has come close to this bond I've felt with her. Obviously this has all been really confusing for me.. I was able to deal with it up until recently.

When we are together in private, we both seem to be drawn to one another.. and inexplicably end up lying across from one another on my bed, talking and smiling. I get text messages and phone calls from her all the time, usually the moment she gets off work I get texted.

Very recently we were enjoying a few drinks at a nearby pub, neither of us had more than 3 drinks. Once we were back in the general vicinity of my dorm she became clearly upset about some family issues she had confided to me about. I comforted her, and once she calmed down I began to make my way to my room.. she followed because she wanted to borrow some cd's and dvd's I had (it was about 12:30 - 1:00 am).

She lay down on my bed once we were in the door, and next thing I know were both lying across from one another talking about nothing in particular. She started to get tired, and procrastinated walking the 15 minutes to her building. I told her she could stay over if she wanted, and she accepted.

We both slept in my twin size bed, and I dozed off. I woke up maybe an hour later to realize that we were cuddled together in a rather intimate fashion, Spooning basically. In the morning we woke up apart from each other, but it wasn't awkward. She just smiled at me, and we had an amusing conversation for 15 minutes before she had to leave for work.

So now I'm truly confused. Sometimes when we talk she tells me how much she likes me, and how she's always telling her friends how great I am. Then other times she starts talking about how 10 years from now she will be a famous professional and how I will totally be able to claim I knew her.

I understand that I'm treading on thin ice with her being the ex of a friend, but he has changed so much for the worse I don't even consider him a friend anymore.

I've been looking for a meaningful relationship for ages, and this shows so much promise but also so many mixed factors.

What should I do? I want to let my feelings be known, but is there even any merit behind that. Is there any substance behind her actions to show that she might be interested?

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[Groen]

I had an update recently to add to that as well.

I spent Friday night with other friends, she texted me saying she was kind of regretting getting dragged along to this night club. I told her that she'll enjoy it once she's there, but said to call me if she decided to come back early.

She did end up coming back early with one of her friends. Her friend went to bed, but she met up with me. We decided to watch a movie, and I headed home after we chatted for a little while once the movie finished. Nothing terribly exciting right?

However, there was one interesting thing about Friday that I'm not sure is a sign or just me looking too deeply in to things. Before she left for the club with her friends a group of us had been hanging out, and were doing some errands for the evening. (namely picking up alcohol). She had seemed rather distant during the day, so I didn't try to engage her in too much chat.

Once we got back, all of our friends parted ways and we went to her room to divide up the liquor we were splitting for the evening. We put some music on since we are both very musically inclined people. I wasn't really in any hurry to go anywhere so we just hung out with the music playing. We were both standing side by side, looking out her window for about 45 minutes just admiring the weather and talking about life, our families and really anything else. We also kept talking about the music we enjoyed, we were both singing along quietly to most of the songs that came on.

Eventually we left to get dinner with one of her friends who had called her, and then parted ways for her to get ready to go out to the club. We finished dinner around 7:10. Fast forwards back to that night once we finished the movie and I was back home. I logged on to facebook for a quick moment to check a message, and I saw that her status update was changed from nothing to "music just sounds better with you." Interestingly this change took place at around 7:20pm that same evening, so it happened right after we finished dinner.

What should I think of that? It seems like a pretty big sign to me, but I guess I could totally be overreacting.

On Saturday I ended up at her place once again. She had seemed pretty distant the whole day, and I hadn't heard from her until I texted her to which she responded that she was at a cousin's house visiting family, and that she would talk to me about plans for the night later. Eventually she messaged me once she was back, and everyone met up.

A group of about 6 of us were going to go see a live show nearby. We never ended up going when we found out that the tickets weren't free, and instead ended up drinking and partying with our small group. I wasn't nearly as drunk as everyone else, so I started feeling rather out of place as time wore on. This group was entirely girls that I was hanging out with, so some of the conversation was rather different than what I'm used to.. But that's never been something to phase me. At this point I started feeling rather down on myself.. I was wondering what I was doing there, I didn't feel very wanted by the group of people. I ended up in the bathroom to relieve myself, and it also gave me a chance to collect my thoughts. I'm not going to lie, I was pretty distressed. I'm under a lot of pressure from all sides currently and it just sort of all came out in the form of me having a wave of depression, anger, anxiety, confusion, and insecurity wash over me.

In the midst of this, I felt my phone vibrate with a text message from her saying they had moved to another person's dorm room in the building and gave me the room number. (I sort of snuck off to the bathroom when no one was looking). I explained in an honest message that I just felt kind of out of place to which she responded by asking with leaving but reassured me she was enjoying my company. I felt marginally better, so I gathered myself up and walked over. The group of people continued to hang out together for a while longer, and we all moved to an empty room to listen to some music and continue hanging out. Eventually everyone started to get tired, and I remind you that they were all still quite drunk so they just wanted to rest it off at that point. At this point she came back to the room (she had left earlier for the bathroom or something else). She lay down on one of the couches beside the chair I was sitting in, singing along to the song currently playing. She was clearly tired and fairly drunk, but she gave me a smile and continued to sing.

Eventually she stood up and asked me to grab her speakers and laptop and take them back to her room for her. I obliged, and she said good night to the room.

We got in through her door, and I put the stuff down. She asked if I wanted to hang out, and said she was made uncomfortable by another guy who had been in the room and was staring at her which was the main reason she wanted to leave. I said sure, and she went and changed in to some sleeping clothes behind her closet. Again, we put really relaxed acoustic music on and she lay down. I was sitting on the side of her bed with her lying beside me. We talked, and she eventually motioned for me to lie down. I lay down facing her and we continued the conversation from Friday. She put her head on my shoulder, and I lay my head against hers. We lay quietly like that for a little while. She kept laughing at herself for how much she'd had to drink, and then she started to talk about how she thought she didn't look feminine enough and was always poorly dressed etc. I immediately told her I thought she looked just fine, to which she disagreed with but laughed and gave me a smile.

I sat back up to feel slightly more comfortable (sore back). And we continued to chat, she brought out her hand and held it out an inch or two from mine. We continued to talk, and she playfully grabbed my foot when it was twitching. I laughed and tried to pull her off playfully.

I lay back down, she was clearly getting tired, and eventually she fell asleep.. I did too for about an hour. When I woke up I decided to walk back to my room across the way. I wanted her to get a good rest, and I anticipated she would have a mean hangover.

Sunday morning I woke up and texted her asking if she wanted to get breakfast. She said she wasn't feeling up to it, and that she wanted to spend a while longer in bed. I told her I was going to take a shower, and asked if she wanted to get a bite to eat in an hour once I had tidied up my room. She agreed, and about an hour later I met her and one of her friends at the cafeteria. We had a pretty uneventful day. After breakfast we went to a store where she bought some new speakers, then downtown where we met a friend and her brother who was about 2-3 years older than us. We sat in the sun by the water, and enjoyed the first nice day we've had in quite a while.

After our late lunch we spent time downtown until 5:30-ish. We all drove back to campus, dropping off our friend and her brother along the way. I was supposed to go meet my family for dinner at 7pm, so me and the girl parted ways. She was going to a family dinner at her cousin's house around that same time, interestingly enough she'd invited me to come along earlier that week but I couldn't due to my family wanting to see me.
I texted her at the end of dinner saying that my relatives had heard you'd invited me to dinner, and told her that we were both invited over for dinner any time we wanted. She said it sounded like a good idea.

[Groen]

Part 2/2


Eventually I made my way back to my place and waited for her to call. She called a little bit later and told me to walk to her place and to dress warm for the fire. We got down to the beach a little while later with a group of about 6 people (the usual suspects). One of the girl's friends was apparently hating on me a great deal that day I was told much to the amusement of the girl I like. (I didn't really think anything of it, this friend is a crazy girl sometimes, and always stresses out about insignificant problems. In fact all of her other friends are getting annoyed with her currently, so they all found it funny that she was trying to badmouth me for being a jerk to her. (I think I told her to calm down once, and I also made a well meaning joke at her when she was raving about some guy she had a crush on).

We made the fire, and sat on the logs surrounding it. I sat down beside her and we shared a blanket. Once again I started to feel kind of out of place, and after making a comment towards the conversation this friend who disliked me made a comment along the lines of "oh I just heard your voice and I had completely forgotten you were here". I saw her looking at the two of us sitting on the log, and she casually remarked to the girl that she wanted to go look at the water. The two of them walked down to the water's edge, and I heard a very muffled but quick conversation which I have a feeling had something to do with me. I heard a firm "No" from the girl I like before hearing them laughing about their shoes getting wet. They both walked back to the fire, and the girl did not take a seat again. She stood on the other side of the fire from me for a time, but eventually came back to sit down after being on the other side. The grumpy friend stood up at this point and started worrying that we were making too much noise yadda yadda yadda, and moved from her seat to standing behind the girl. She started talking about how pretty this girl is while running her hands through the girl's hair. (It should be mentioned that we are pretty sure this friend is bi-sexual, she's almost constantly coming on to this girl.. sometimes in a joking way, and sometimes in a very forcible manner which makes this girl uncomfortable).

After the fire wrapped up and everyone was back in the cars, our car drove back to campus where we dropped the friend off who was acting very strangely and started demanding to go back.

Now there were 4 of us, we made a quick stop for a bite to eat at a 24 hour fast food place. Again not much was really said between us, I had been quiet for a long time and I could feel myself becoming distressed about the situation, something just felt off.

Once we all got back on to campus we all parted ways to our rooms. I arrived back feeling rather distraught once again. My thoughts were racing, and to try and calm down I started watching a movie. I fell asleep only to have a strange nightmare which involved her.. However I cannot remember anything specific about the dream itself.

Upon waking up this morning I've decided to give her some distance. I will let her contact me if she wants to talk, but I feel like I'm losing my mind as crazy and pathetic as that might sound. I haven't ever felt this strongly about someone before dating them.

It's funny, as I've written this I've started to realize how crazy I must be coming off as.. but it's the truth.

---

I'm planning on writing a note for her and giving it to her next open chance I have. I can let my feelings be known, and it has the benefit of not putting her on the spot.

[corinthian]

Groen,

I don't really have much to offer you, I'm afraid, except my deepest sympathy. You've got it bad and I for one would not have been able to tolerate what you have gone through. Hang in there. Wiser heads will be along soon to give you some advice. Sounds like you have a pretty cruisey life there though - do you ever actually do any work? Maybe that would take your mind off things a little.

[lovesjoyajm]

You don't sound crazy, you sound smitten. And quite infatuated. You should see my first posts - ok, all my boy-related posts - they tended to be just as detailed as yours. It's because every little detail of these past few days/weeks has been meaningful to you so you assume it's meaningful to everyone else as well. (I don't mean that in a bad way - it's just hard for you to imagine not caring what she said/did at one point or another.)

I think it's a good idea to tell her how you feel. You might ruin the friendship, yes, but it's not really a friendship - you're in love with her! (Or so it seems.) It really just depends on how much you value this time with her even though it is torture for you. If you tell her and she doesn't reciprocate, it might be awkward, and you might not see her as much, but that would give you room to move on and find someone who reciprocates your feelings. (That is, unless she's a bitch who doesn't care about hurting you - if she does care, she'll probably spend less time with you to avoid leading you on.)

Or, she might be waiting for this, and you could be making the next necessary step in a great relationship.

The risks are pretty clear, but don't seem too great. I would go for it and stop letting yourself be tortured by questions.

[Naples]

Awwwe you've got it bad :-) You've got nothing to lose but to tell her how you feel! (eventuallly.) If she does not reciprocate, then it will mean spending less time with her--which is good, because your poor heart cannot tolerate being around her without being WITH her in the way you so deeply desire. I would just advise you to be very careful, given the fact that she is on the rebound. You do not want to take advantage of her weak emotional state (I'm not saying you intend to, you just do not want your motives to be misunderstood by anybody.) This is not only to protect your reputation or for HER sake, it is also to guard your heart. If she clings to you to help her get over her past relationship, when she is over it, she will in turn be over you. So be very cautious that her feelings are genuine. Give it some time. There needs to be a buffer.

When the time comes, don't scare her off. Tell her you have feelings for her--do not write her a 12 page letter confessing your undying love. This will seem too strong given the fact that she is very freshly broken up, and you were actually THERE for the breakup. Give it a month, then reveal your interest in her.

I truly hope it goes your way! :-)

[corinthian]

I would just advise you to be very careful, given the fact that she is on the rebound. You do not want to take advantage of her weak emotional state (I'm not saying you intend to, you just do not want your motives to be misunderstood by anybody.) This is not only to protect your reputation or for HER sake, it is also to guard your heart. If she clings to you to help her get over her past relationship, when she is over it, she will in turn be over you. So be very cautious that her feelings are genuine. Give it some time. There needs to be a buffer.

When the time comes, don't scare her off. Tell her you have feelings for her--do not write her a 12 page letter confessing your undying love. This will seem too strong given the fact that she is very freshly broken up, and you were actually THERE for the breakup. Give it a month, then reveal your interest in her.

I truly hope it goes your way! :-)

The thing is, how can the poor guy wait another month? Honestly, I do not know how you can deal with any more punishment.

Look, and I didn't want to say this first up, it would be almost literally impossible for anyone to feel as strongly for another human being as you subjectively feel right now for this girl. You must prepare yourself for disappointment.

I think the note is a great idea but I totally agree with Naples that this cannot be a 12-pager. In fact, when I sent a similar note to someone a few days ago, I managed to keep it down to 907 words, including greetings, and I wish now I had made it much shorter (it didn't work). By all means discuss your concerns about her being on the rebound but go on to say that you just feel very strongly about her and feel that you just have to get it out in the open straight away.

I found it helpful that I asked for a reply in general terms by e-mail within a specific timeframe because otherwise you will go crazy wondering when and how you are going to find out how she feels. (Obviously, just choose any medium that you think she will find convenient. Then maybe add that, if you have not heard by a given time, you will call her.) Luckily, in my case, my wishes were respected in this matter even though I did not get the answer I wanted.

I think once you have done this, you will feel a certain amount of relief, even if you don't get the answer that we are all hoping for.

[Groen]

I've already written the note, it's probably around 250 words long. It just says how I feel, that I understand it's a bad time, and that I hope to talk to her about it after she has time to read it and think.

Yes I realize that these are insanely strong feelings for someone I'm not even dating.. I've never been one to really get attached to a girl. The reason this is so different is because for the first time I really got to know this person on a close level before having feelings for her. I feel like we are two closely compatible people.

I brought it up with one of my close friends a few days ago. He just chuckled and said he knew something was up. He's been friends with this girl since we were 12 (almost 8 years). They even dated back when we were 15.

I was surprised when he told me he was reasonably sure that she knew how I was feeling.

Honestly, I just need to get this in to the open. The questions are killing me, and even if I lose a good friend I don't think I could live with myself asking "what-ifs?".

I'm kind of ashamed to resort to a note, but it lets me get everything out there. It also has the huge benefit of not putting her on the spot.

[Gigabitch]

Well, your situation of "not dating" is a hell of a lot closer to dating than a lot of couples get. You are so totally dating her, you're just both pretending to be friends.

I hope she reciprocated your feelings, but i must warn you that you're in danger of blowing it if you don't make a move soon. Think of her as being perishable. She's not getting any fresher. This is not to say you should jump on her, lest you become the rebound guy, but you have to tell her you're interested in her romantically as soon as possible. Like tonight.

[corinthian]

To be honest with you, I am having second thoughts about the note. Maybe you should just try and get her drunk and take advantage of her when her resistance is low. You can then sweep up afterwards. This way, you're not going to come across as too much of a dick and, if it all goes wrong, you can just say you were drunk and apologise. Just a thought.

[Gigabitch]

To be honest with you, I am having second thoughts about the note. Maybe you should just try and get her drunk and take advantage of her when her resistance is low. You can then sweep up afterwards. This way, you're not going to come across as too much of a dick and, if it all goes wrong, you can just say you were drunk and apologise. Just a thought.

That's really not such a terrible idea.

[Groen]

Unfortunately, I'm really not that kind of person. I think I'm going to follow through with the note, but I'm going to wait until Sunday night.

I'm sticking with the note primarily for the reason that she deserves to A) Have a say in it and B) She would NOT appreciate being advanced upon while drunk.

[corinthian]

Unfortunately, I'm really not that kind of person. I think I'm going to follow through with the note, but I'm going to wait until Sunday night.

I'm sticking with the note primarily for the reason that she deserves to A) Have a say in it and B) She would NOT appreciate being advanced upon while drunk.

Let me tell you, there is a difference between strategy and tactics, or means and ends, here.

Strategy/Ends: You genuinely love the girl and want the best for her, i.e. she should be with you.

Tactics/Means: Because of the above, you owe it to the girl to do everything in your power to bring that about. You realise she has been through a rough patch and is maybe reluctant to get heavily involved again so soon. However, what she doesn't know is what a terrific time she could have with you.

You just happen to know that it will be a whole lot easier for all concerned if you just set things up with a drunken kiss. You see? It is all perfectly reasonable and in her best interests.

[Cbrider]

While Corinthian has an approach that may work I wouldn't say that its a recommended one, lol. Do you really want your "how did you meet" story to go something like: Xxxxxx was totally shitfaced and I was completely into here. I Just kind of came at her.......come on.

Man, you are either one lucky SOB or this girl is bi-polar. I say that because she has done everything but pull your pants off to make it clear that she is extremely attracted to you. You're lucky because if she feels the same way shes been ridiculously patient with your lack of advancement.

Like others have said, prepare for the worst, if shes bi-polar or her moral compass is out of tune, she might just be leading you on as a tag along rebound.

No one can truly tell you what she feels, but I can tell you that if you wait any longer you will lose your shot. Shes starting to show a little distance, she wants you to pursue her and you haven't.

Get up and get going now. Let us know how this goes, I'm curious.

P.S. Congrats on composing the longest and probably most detailed post I have seen yet. On top of that you actually used complete words and sentences, most people don't.

[corinthian]

While Corinthian has an approach that may work I wouldn't say that its a recommended one, lol. Do you really want your "how did you meet" story to go something like: Xxxxxx was totally shitfaced and I was completely into here. I Just kind of came at her.......come on.

They have already met, for God's sake, and as Gigabitch pointed out, they are practically ****ing married already. "How did we meet? Well, it was great because actually we became best friends first and then we totally fell in love. Finally, (a) Groen got around to asking me out on a date or (b) One night Groen had this wild idea to take me down to the beach in the moonlight to watch the sperm whales mating and he had prepared this wonderful little midnight feast, and we put on some of our favourite tracks (he had brought his mini-speakers with him) and just sang along with the ****ing whales. He put his arm round me 'cause it was a little chilly and then" - I don't know - "we were fooling around and he started tickling me" or whatever - make the rest up yourself. I think this could be one of the great romances.

Another thing: I didn't say that he should get her "shitfaced". I should have been more specific and what I have in mind is something like around half a bottle of wine, or perhaps more given that your group seems to basically spend the whole time drinking and therefore she may have a higher than average tolerance. All you are looking for here is a warm glow and lowered inhibitions - you definitely don't want her throwing up on your big night.

You need to show a lot more passion here. You have been pussy-footing around and you need to take control in a much more dominant way. To paraphrase someone in another thread, "where is your swag game?"

You're lucky because if she feels the same way shes been ridiculously patient with your lack of advancement.

What he said.

Like others have said, prepare for the worst, if shes bi-polar or her moral compass is out of tune, she might just be leading you on as a tag along rebound.

No one can truly tell you what she feels, but I can tell you that if you wait any longer you will lose your shot. Shes starting to show a little distance, she wants you to pursue her and you haven't.

Get up and get going now. Let us know how this goes, I'm curious.

P.S. Congrats on composing the longest and probably most detailed post I have seen yet. On top of that you actually used complete words and sentences, most people don't.

Don't prepare for the worst because that will make that outcome all the more likely. Step up to the plate, plan a killer night out for just the two of you and the rest will be history. If it doesn't work, at least you will have given it your best shot and you won't look like a total pussy.

Sorry to come over so strong on this one but I am really trying to help you here - I have too many regrets myself over this type of situation and you obviously have the best of intentions so there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting together a bit of a cunning plan. This is what men do, they have to win women over and they have to do that by charming the pants off them. This is actually what women want.

At the end of the day, it is your call. Do come back to us and tell us how it went. I hope it works out for you, I really do.