Religious differences - first post and a doozy!

[DoctorB2B]

Hello all,

I have quite the predicament and I'm not sure how it will resolve. Any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

Back story: Going on 6 years of marriage this May, known each other for 7. Got married at 21. At the time she and I were devout christians, however this is no longer the case.

Today's story: I am back in school studying to become a doctor and in that time I have lost all ability to make sense of religion and have said to myself and aloud to my wife that I can't in good conscience subscribe to the religion that we shared when we got married nor any religion for that matter.

She believes firmly without any doubts in her faith. However, I have a mind that relies on logic and rationalization without much room for anything else. Combine that with other reasons I've walked away from religion, I now find myself at odds with a devout christian wife staring at a future that is quite uncertain now.

I don't know that there is much to be said in cases like this, outside of "I'm sorry" however I'm not willing to lose my wife over this.

It's a tough situation where had I not gone back to school and been taught how to think and reason AND been exposed to so much science, I may still be hanging out in church with her, I can't say for certain.

I'm not mad at her for expressing her concerns and frustrations nor do I regret walking away. I'm more at peace now than I ever was as a man of faith.

My thoughts are scattered, as they are much of the time when I post on message boards ... it's a lot to throw out there, and much more to process. Thank goodness for the kindness of strangers to offer words of wisdom/support/etc.

-Doc B-

[carl1222]

So you've lost faith ... how important is that to her?

By the way, great scientific minds such as Einstein had a strong belief in God ... so don't be so quick to dismiss it as being antithetical to rational scientific thought. Science gives important answers but it's stupid to think that science has ALL the answers. Science is limited to what we can perceive and test, the universe is far more complicated (or simpler) than that!

Carl.

[Mish]

I now find myself at odds with a devout christian wife staring at a future that is quite uncertain now.

Why do you find your future uncertain now? What are the key issues that come up in your interactions which are attributed to your loss of faith?

[Gribble]

I wouldn't say Einstein had a strong belief in God. He was spiritual in a way. However, from everything I've read on the man he was a deist. He believed in an impersonal god. There's a fairly big difference.

To the OP, how overtly religious is your wife? Can the two of you not manage to coexist by signing a nonaggression pact? IE, no attempting to convert or change her and likewise she doesn't try anything on you?

As an atheist I've more or less resigned myself to never discussing religion in depth with the women I date. It invariably causes trouble.

[carl1222]

I wouldn't say Einstein had a strong belief in God. He was spiritual in a way. However, from everything I've read on the man he was a deist. He believed in an impersonal god. There's a fairly big difference.

To the OP, how overtly religious is your wife? Can the two of you not manage to coexist by signing a nonaggression pact? IE, no attempting to convert or change her and likewise she doesn't try anything on you?

As an atheist I've more or less resigned myself to never discussing religion in depth with the women I date. It invariably causes trouble.

Not to quibble with Gribble but Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme natural God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason and observation of the natural world. But the main flaw in science in relation to religion is the conceit that scientists think they know enough about the natural world to answer the question ... they don't. The truth is not only more strange that we imagine ... it's stranger than we CAN imagine. To think otherwise is stupid, lazy and smug ... and will have us laughed at by the 4th millennium.

Carl.

[Gribble]

Maybe I'm being anal retentive, but God to me is Yahweh, god of the Christian bible. Whereas the deist god is merely that, a god. Unknowable. Undifined. Not a proper noun. I was merely pointing out that I do not believe Einstein believed in the personal God, rather he believed in an impersonal god.

the main flaw in science in relation to religion is the conceit that scientists think they know enough about the natural world to answer the question

What is the question? And which scientist claims to know enough about the world to answer it? Scientists are among the first to tell us we're just barely scratching the surface in spite of their countless books, theses, reports, presentations, etc. Theists, however, will be more than happy to hand you a 1500 page book that explains the creation of the universe and everything pertinent therein.

[Junket]

They have kids.

That's where things get tricky, especially if their extended family is devout Christian as well.

[DoctorB2B]

Thanks for all the replies in such a short time.

It's necessary for me to clarify my position, as I certainly didn't do a good job the first time. I'm resigned to believing in something bigger, just not giving this something the name Jesus. That's certainly more in line with where I am right now.

Carl, what you say about science is 100% correct. While there are many truths defined by science, there are answers that science will try and give that I simply cannot accept. There are two things that will bring me back to the idea of something far bigger than I. The human body and our universe.

My evidence to myself: To say evolution has brought us to our current state seems utterly ridiculous in my mind. This would assert that evolving cells would have had cognitive thought, enough so where they would have designated the need for functional systems like our immune system which in itself is fascinating. Science teaches that evolution occurs through random mutations over time that are subject to genetic drift whereby they either remain in the population or simply find their way to extinction. This theory implies that a single strand of RNA splashing onto clay has evolved over the last 4.6 billion years into the modern day homo sapien.

There are simply some things that I can swallow and some that I can't and that is one of them.

Mishanya, the main thing she has brought up is the raising of our children ... when that day comes. She was raised in the faith and wants a similar experience for our children. She's also feels that a lack of christian faith by me will not allow me to be the spiritual head of household ... ultimately not allowing me to support her by praying for her like she would want me to.

I understand these concerns ... our perspectives are polar opposites right now. I'm certain I would make an amazing father and I don't like that the judgement of my abilities would be lessened because of my level of faith.

Gribble: My wife is the producer of the 700 Club. She was raised within the church, and a rather charismatic branch of it her entire life. She's the most genuine christian person I have ever known.

I find myself asking the same questions as you ... as pertaining to nonaggression pacts and the like. She knows where I stand, it just seems like an narrow point of view v. open point of view impasse has been created and it doesn't appear that there is a conclusion to be reached.

[DoctorB2B]

They have kids.

That's where things get tricky, especially if their extended family is devout Christian as well.

I thought I mentioned this but I didn't ... no kids yet.

[carl1222]

I'm not saying that Deists are wrong ... just that they lack information ... lots of it ... to explain it all and refute the idea of a personal God above reams of anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

I agree that Theists are just as wrong for claiming to have all the answers from scripture when they don't. It's called "faith" because you choose to believe without proof. I just object to science being elevated to a position it doesn't deserve in a scientific age ... it doesn't have proof either.

Carl.

[vashti]

I thought I mentioned this but I didn't ... no kids yet.

I don't suggest you have any, in that case (at least not until this matter is resolved). If you think things are tricky NOW, wait until you have kids. THAT'S when religious unity becomes important. Until then, it's just a convenience.

[DoctorB2B]

I don't suggest you have any, in that case (at least not until this matter is resolved). If you think things are tricky NOW, wait until you have kids. THAT'S when religious unity becomes important. Until then, it's just a convenience.

I agree ... our plan right now is to wait until after medical school.

[Mish]

Mishanya, the main thing she has brought up is the raising of our children ... when that day comes. She was raised in the faith and wants a similar experience for our children.

What is your position on raising of children? 'Faith upbringing' something perhaps she can be allowed to do? You don't really need to be faithful to the Religion in that instance.

She's also feels that a lack of christian faith by me will not allow me to be the spiritual head of household

What does that mean? Please elaborate.

... ultimately not allowing me to support her by praying for her like she would want me to.

Maybe you can still pray for her even though you don't believe as deeply as her?

I understand these concerns ... our perspectives are polar opposites right now. I'm certain I would make an amazing father and I don't like that the judgement of my abilities would be lessened because of my level of faith.

It sounds like there is a lot of room for negotiation since the issues are not really concrete, not well defined and really are a bit vague. Can you come to a some sort of compromise or agreement?

Ask her that question and see what the response is. If you can't then you have no choice and will have to call the marriage off. I think in the face of this alternative the will may appear for some compromises to be made.

[DoctorB2B]

What is your position on raising of children? 'Faith upbringing' something perhaps she can be allowed to do? You don't really need to be faithful to the Religion in that instance.

I have no problem raising children in a christian home. It's something she has always wanted.

What does that mean? Please elaborate.
She feels like my not willing to deem christianity the way means that I won't lead the household like she would like.

Maybe you can still pray for her even though you don't believe as deeply as her?
I do pray for her, but again because I don't pray to Jesus it doesn't cut it.

It sounds like there is a lot of room for negotiation since the issues are not really concrete, not well defined and really are a bit vague. Can you come to a some sort of compromise or agreement?
That's the question that has to be answered

Ask her that question and see what the response is. If you can't then you have no choice and will have to call the marriage off. I think in the face of this alternative the will may appear for some compromises to be made.[/QUOTE]

[vashti]

Honestly, I don't see how a deep belief in Jesus is at all compatible with a lack thereof. I mean really - are you really going to be okay with your future kids singing "yes Jesus loves me" and pressuring you to believe so you won't go to hell? How will you respond to a child's genuine distress that you aren't "saved"?

I don't see how this would work.