Am I too nice?

[Raffles]

Evenin' all,

This is my first post, so here goes!

Basically I feel like I am my own worst enemy when it comes to love and relationships.

I'm 20, I've never had a girlfriend! Not even close...Though I know that I'm not even in sight of the point where I should actually worry...

In the past I've been knocked back by girls who I thought could find it within themselves to feel the same way about me as I did of them. I can think of a couple seperate examples of this, whereby these ladies have been close friends for more than a year's time, during which I myself built up an admiration or strong feeling for. And each time I admitted the truth about them, they reacted badly and either cut me off or just plain didn't want me.

On example includes a girl who I got on with extremely well and we had loads of laughs and general good times with. She was single and beautiful, and had a bit of a nerd within, beneath her 'cool' exterior. Well, when she discovered how I honestly felt about her (by word of mouth from one of my 'friends'), the response she gave was basically 'I couldn't, not after going out with my Ex who was extremely popular etc, it would put me a few rungs down the social ladder'

That hurt. But it was quick to see that the girl had issues.

The second example played out the same, however this girl just reacted badly and cut me off, one day we were great friends and the next - I couldn't get a word in.

When these things happen, I can't help but believe all the signs: "Why would they want me when they can have someone else?"

Try as I might, this defeating motto seems to rear it's ugly head If have the bare-faced cheek to fall for someone.

It makes me shy in person and dialogue, yet outspoken in action and meaningful gesture. It makes me incredibly nervous to admit to any degree that I feel any way about someone, but I still try to break out of my own cage, tiny step by tiny step. By which I mean I would put a lot of thought, time and money into surprising a girl on her birthday or other occasion, and pay constant consideration to them in every way I can think of whether they realise or not, yet I would be quite sheepish face-to-face and scared of stepping on toes.

I have come to realise that I have a huge self-confidence issue when it comes to women. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to be with me, and I'd find it even harder to be comfortable in the glaring eyes of others if that ever became the case, as if I was somehow commiting a major crime by being loved.

This also makes me quite timid and makes casual flirting nearly impossible unless with someone who's even more recluse than myself in that area. I feel like I don't stand out because I am far too cautious and careful about respecting the lady I care about most, that I don't act like a potential partner, but instead more like a friendly grandad! I feel like what's going on in my head is completely different from what I can convey in my body language...

I am concerned that my gentle demeanour is handicapping me when other lads of my age and older are much more forward in the way they speak, drool and generally ogle over girls. Behaviour which I would quite frankly be disgusted to see myself stoop to! But I have a hard time understanding that when it makes their targets laugh, blush and respond much more positively than a please-thankyou-cheers...

Flirtatious, provocative, sexy and spontaneous are all in my vocabulary.......just not when it's directed at someone who isn't 'with' you! This is my major stumbling block!

So I need your words of wisdom! I'm not a social shut-in, I'm not a dropout and I'm far from ugly! I'm certain I have all the ingredients in my personality to make someone happy, all but ONE: CONFIDENCE.

It is self defeating - I don't believe I will ever change unless I find a woman who can break the chain, but I don't think I will ever get that woman if I carry on like I do!

[Gigabitch]

Move. I am not kidding. Get away from your surroundings and start over.

[Raffles]

It's been a good few years since I ever had thoughts about a relationship - I've finished school, finished college, been in work for a year and a half and doing very well....

I'm a reformed guy compared to back then, in the days those 'examples' took place.

The confidence issue is an irritating hanger-on!

[Anomaly]

You know, I had your problem too and reading your post reminds me of me just a couple of years ago. And I'm 10 years older than you so you still have tons of time, just be patient. I felt the exact same way until I met somebody who made me feel so confident in myself. And you know the funny thing? When I told her my feelings, she also shut me out for a while, but I continued to be persistent and she has finally accepted me as a friend. Yes, she's just a friend for now, but thanks to her I have found my true talent, I found what truly makes ME happy, and that made me much more confident in myself. I have learned that you can't count on others to help make you feel better, you have to do that yourself.

And you know what's funny? Ever since I have been going about my daily business way more confident, women seem to look at me differently. My demeanor, and my belief in myself has made a world of difference. It has nothing to do with using vulgar language, you just have to be happy with yourself, and let somebody accept you for you. Be yourself, don't be a jackass like those jocks, because in 10 years they will be fat and stupid, with fat and stupid wives who settled for second best, working minimum wage jobs. You have to be yourself, and somebody someday WILL appreciate you for who you are, not for who you pretend to be. If you are not sure of yourself, its impossible for anybody else to be.

So, just find your own talents, find what makes you happy and go do it. With that, the confidence will come, and so will the girls. And if a girl ignores you after you tell her your feelings, let her go because she's obviously not worth your time, she is not the one for you, you cannot force somebody to have feelings for you. Most important of all, you CANNOT let anybody influence the way that you feel about yourself. There is somebody out there for you, I have found the one for me, although she doesn't know it yet, I do! I love her because she has helped me find myself, she knows that and nothing else matters to me right now. And I know that you will also find your happiness if you stay patient. If I did, then so can you!

I know that this is all easier said than done, but just be patient and look within yourself before you look for others to see the real you. If you are not confident with yourself, people will know that. You have to find the real you first before anybody else will be able to see who you truly are. Do not run away, because anywhere you go, you will still be you, people will always look at you the same way, no matter where you are. If people laugh at you, laugh back, prove them wrong, don't back down or they have won.

Best of luck in life, and in trying to understand all of that rambling!

[Raffles]

Thanks for that!

I know that tommorow, just by reading someone's personal response, your words will be twice as powerful to me.

I have proved to myself that I can erase my bad habits with a sharp stab of cold turkey - recently that has meant junk food is out, I've stopped biting my nails (horrendous habit, that).

Next on the hitlist is to erase my self-consciousness. To relax, be natural around those who normally cause me to tense up.

I know that if I focus on it, I can mend it!

Any extra words from different people would be appreciated -

Raffles

[Anomaly]

Thanks for that!

I know that tommorow, just by reading someone's personal response, your words will be twice as powerful to me.

I have proved to myself that I can erase my bad habits with a sharp stab of cold turkey - recently that has meant junk food is out, I've stopped biting my nails (horrendous habit, that).

Next on the hitlist is to erase my self-consciousness. To relax, be natural around those who normally cause me to tense up.

I know that if I focus on it, I can mend it!

Any extra words from different people would be appreciated -

Raffles

Exactly!!!!

I was a smoker for half of my life, and almost 2 years ago, I said ENOUGH! I told myself that if I can't quit smoking, I am worthless and can't do anything. And that's my foundation for everything that I do these days, it proves to me that you can do anything that you put your mind to, if you really want to. I used to smoke a pack a day, I quit cold turkey, and I have not touched a cigarette since, and I know that I never will again! I wake up these days and don't even think about them anymore. It's funny because I started smoking to feel different and cool, and it took quitting to actually feel that way! Life is so funny like that, and you have to appreciate the little things!

You are so totally right on, you have it all figured out, you just don't know it yet. Being nice is not a bad thing, its a great thing, and it pays back in life trust me, I have been having an unbelievable year! And you are definitely on the right track too!

[michief_delight]

You sound like a good person to me, and though I don't know you; from what I just read, those girls are all fools for treating you the way they did. You seem like a sincere person, and honestly I think most guys should be more like you, it's really hard to find a nice guy (well for me it is). Anyways, I agree with Anomaly, and it is the best advice one can give you. So good luck!

[samson]

i read your message and i felt as though i was looking in a mirror. almost like i wrote it. im really nice and treat women with respect and im not noticed at all. i do act confidently with people i know and familiar with, but its hard to act myself in front of new people. ive had a girlfriend but its only because she pursued me, and thats because i was sitting by myself in class. im far from ugly as well and im a great person, its just hard to show it to people.

[alex12345]

There is a difference between being nice and not asking for what you need. Make sure you know and feel the difference.

[lastwish]

Most women would like the man to approach her. If you don't have confidence, then you won't get anywhere. Be a man.

[Rollerderby]

I have come to realise that I have a huge self-confidence issue when it comes to women. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to be with me, and I'd find it even harder to be comfortable in the glaring eyes of others if that ever became the case, as if I was somehow commiting a major crime by being loved.

I'm certain I have all the ingredients in my personality to make someone happy, all but ONE: CONFIDENCE.

It is self defeating - I don't believe I will ever change unless I find a woman who can break the chain, but I don't think I will ever get that woman if I carry on like I do!

You said your problem: confidence. That sucks that some of the girls you liked chose guys out of status, but the unfortunate truth is, if you come across like a pushover, pansy whatever, women aren't going to swoon. Women choose mates based on status. You have to feel confident in order to be confident. If you are looking at women with puppy love eyes asking for love, you are not going to get it. No one wants to date someone who is desperate.

here are links:

[url]http://www.pioneerthinking.com/ej_assertive.html[/url]

[url]http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/04/09/6-ways-to-make-your-life-better-today/[/url]

[url]http://www.mindtools.com/selfconf.html[/url]

You don't suck. But you do need to work on not hating yourself based on these girls decisions. It takes time, but build yourself. Go work out if you want to beef up a little, not for them but for your own happiness and well-being. Do things that make you happy, and the ironic thing is that people will come to you if you exude joy.

[Icej2k]

Hey Raffles,
Brief intro of me -
I have been giving male and female friends relationship advice since I was a young teen. And I have recently moved on to helping my male friends become generally successful with women. And they are slowly improving, as am I.

Anomaly has given you some brilliant words of wisdom, and I agree with almost everything that he has said, apart from the comments about the jocks. It seemed as though there is a certain amount of bitterness in what comment. And dw Anomaly, I am not trying to take away from what you have said.

But here is my advice...
CONFIDENCE AND SELF-CONCIOUSNESS:
"Success breeds confidence" And in turn, confidence breeds success...
I forget who said this, but it is totally true, and it is what creates the paradox when it comes to dating. How do you get the initial success if you lack confidence?

And the answer is one word... Indifference...
As Anomaly said, when you just go about your daily business, people will look at you differently. These are small hurdles of success... And this is what will begin to make you more confident, creating a snowball effect.

As for your problem with getting a girl who is a close friend, and then making your move... This will rarely work, unless you know exactly what you are doing. (I will leave that out, because i could write an essay on that alone).

Self conciousness melts away when you stop caring what people thing, by definition. And this brings us back to indifference...

Who are the strongest people? Those who have been through the most difficult experiences and survived. And this is how you can get stronger, more confident, and less self-concious.

The way that I became less self concious was by putting myself through embarrassing experiences. I started cold approaching girls whenever I got the chance. Just be nice. You are not trying to get anything from these girls, and here's what you need to know about rejection... These girls cannot reject you for you - They don't even know you. They are rejecting your approach, and all that means is that you need more practice. It is not your aim to get rejected, but at this stage, rejection is good. And when you look back, and you have rejections, and successful approaches under your belt, you can look back and think "I've been called a weirdo, told to **** off, and just plain ignored. But I'm still here". And then you just stop caring. This is when your success with women shoots up exponentially. I am not telling you to go out and be a player, but cold approaches will help you in every aspect of your life where confidence is required. And that really is everything.

"Nice guys" do finish last. But it all depends on what you consider to be a "nice guy". But you don't have to be a bastard. A cool guy with a light playful attitude will attract women. And you literally don't have to try. Anyone can do it. Seriously. Some guys will probably hate me for this post, because they fear their own potential, and it's easier to accept mediocrity.

"Be yourself" is not a sufficient mantra. As there "self" is not specific enough. As I know you will totally agree, you are one way with girls who don't know you're attracted, but as soon as they do, your persona will completely change. So I will leave you with this... Don't just be yourself. "Be your best self" - quote from Style

So if you want to ask me anything else, or you want me to clarify what I have said, just ask me in a reply. I also have different exercises that will make you successful with women... So just ask if you want to hear those.

[tintin]

I am kind of a lazy person to read every other reply. But have you ever though about writing ? I had to read your post twice because I got lost in your words,although I am not english,I enjoyed it.

[Horizon]

How the hell do you know so much about me?
...No, seriously! It's as if reading about myself in this thread. I have the exact same problems and still waiting for the opportunity to change that. I hope in a couple of years i can see the same change in me

[zambalion]

I think there are a few things you should know about relationships and people. Something everyone should know, but when your a kid your parents just don't share with you -because not everyone understands this as plainly as I'm going to put it.

You cannot help attraction! When you are attracted to someone - it just is. It's their laugh or their smile, their words, their eye's, they way they make you feel, and on and on.

HOWEVER - you can influence attraction, and sometimes create it others.

I never learned how to flirt. I wasn't taught how ask out a girl, I wasn't taught how to be good in bed, their are many things I have never been taught, but you can learn!

Do you ever wonder why some of the ugliest guys are with the hottest women? It's because they have "attracted" the woman - And she can't help it!

This is great for us! We just have to learn the art of attraction and we can begin dating more frequently. Suddenly it's not about being an outcast. Or having to have big muscles or a lot of money.

Now, I do not recommend ever being someone your not. Being fake is one of the worst feelings. However you can learn how to flirt and create attraction.

A few basics:

1. Women generally look for a leader. A strong man (not literally, but a confident man.) Look them in the eyes when they make eye contact with you. And every time you are speaking to them. It should be natural though, not a staring contest. You can look away for brief moments. Be outgoing and funny. Be remembered and unique as possible.

2. Women love to laugh and feel important. Don't leave any long pauses, keep a good conversation going. The best way to make a woman laugh is to make fun of them. (Lightly. And you have to smile big when you say something about them, and you have to use a joking tone - not serious. It works the absolute best when executed correctly.) Generally I'll say a few things normal, then make fun of them, say a few statements, then make fun of them. I like to accuse girls I see at the bar as being alcholics if they have two drinks in their hand. They immeadiately pleed that they are just getting it for a friend. Then I say "Surrree. Yeah right. You just left an AA meeting didn't you!" (and smile). If were bowling and the girl gets a strike and is kicking my ass, I accuse them of being a ex bowling pro or on the PBA Tour secretly. So I'll have to deduct a few strikes here and there for being so good!

3. Never be desperate. It's kind of like this mentality that shows confidence (You are the important one - not her. Sometimes I remind myself of this when I'm talking to a girl that I find extremely attractive. I'm the prize, not her.) I rarely introduce myself by telling them my name, I let them ask me for my name. Several minutes may go by, but if I'm funny - they'll eventually get curious and ask. I also after about 4 minutes of conversation will say "You know, we should hang out sometime." I don't ask them for their number! When a girl is interested in you she will say "Okay we'll let me give you my number!" Works great. Girls don't want guys that drool all over them, they want guys that are funny confident and just a little out of reach for them.

4. Look for the signs. If she touches your arm - she's showing interest - show interest right back in a different way to subconsciously reward her for her good behavior. If she makes fun of you right back that's another interest. If she winks, or laughs a lot, whatever is flirting - three times in a conversation - then you've got someone interested in you. Don't waist much time "Tell her - we should hang out sometime and go get some sushi." or whatever. Leave her wanting more of you - once she shows interest three times tell her you've got to go. It's drive them crazy! Leave em hanging on for more!

I've had some gorgeous, funny girlfriends in my past but never figured out how I did it, until I read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Interesting book. With some practice you'll be a pro at girls asking you out! Remember your the prize not them.

The above is only meant for Raffles. I'm not suggesting to be someone your not, or to be cocky, or arrogant. You'll have to find your own personality within these basics. You have to have the mindset of "your the prize" if your self confidence is low. After sometime, I think everyone should see everyone as an equal prize. I think respect for the opposite sex is of utmost importance. Have fun Raffles!