misombra's inequivocable hatred for the police deepens.

[Lite]

That's interesting, I didn't know all of that.

Though sometimes acts like this just tip the scales. In a community where dirty police dealing or police brutality is common it takes just one high profile spark to ignite the situation and set it on fire. It means, it's not just community to blame, but there are a range of issues stemming from various police incidents (justified or non justified) to the communication channels between government (council or state) and the particular community. When riots happen, it's not just the fault of the rioters it's usually the fault with the entire system. Entire system and any preludes to the riots need to be investigated and corrected so it doesn't happen again in the future.

In my experience a good number of the people caught in "police brutality" issues tend to have had run-ins w/ the police prior. Mr. King has has something like another 11 convictions of various types since 1991, and was on parole at the time he ran from police.

Had he simply pulled over and not acted like a freak, he likely wouldn't have been beaten.

The basic precept of such riots is pretty much poverty. It ends up being the poor abusing the poor while the not-so-poor look on from behind the safety of police barricades and gated neighborhoods who shake their heads and say, "Oh it's such a shame."

But, it comes down to money and an inability to empathize with others. When you're poor enough to have little to lose, you cannot empathize with those you are ultimately stealing from. Even if they have less than you.

[Mish]

The basic precept of such riots is pretty much poverty. It ends up being the poor abusing the poor while the not-so-poor look on from behind the safety of police barricades and gated neighborhoods who shake their heads and say, "Oh it's such a shame."

But not every poor community or one in poverty riot due to police brutality. From what I understand only ones with high rate of unjustified police incidents do. Ones where people feel alienated. In order to prevent riots in the future, it may be a good idea to take a wholistic approach to the problem, find out points where all parties involved strayed and take steps to prevent them in the future?

[IndiReloaded]

Hey Lite,

I'm not arguing about whether Rodney King deserved his beating. I am discussing the very real need for police action to be more transparent and answerable in cases where there was obvious mishandling of a situation. Perhaps you should read about what happened in Canada last year with a man at the Vancouver airport being tasered to death. There is NO question there that man did not deserve to have that happen. While relatively rare in Canada, I understand that kind of thing is more common in the US.

As far as issues go, I tend to be more solution oriented once existence of a problem has been established. If you can think of some other things folks might focus on in this regard, it would be cool for you to post such. I agree, poverty is a factor, but its not the only one.

[misombra]

In my experience a good number of the people caught in "police brutality" issues tend to have had run-ins w/ the police prior. Mr. King has has something like another 11 convictions of various types since 1991, and was on parole at the time he ran from police.

Had he simply pulled over and not acted like a freak, he likely wouldn't have been beaten.

The basic precept of such riots is pretty much poverty. It ends up being the poor abusing the poor while the not-so-poor look on from behind the safety of police barricades and gated neighborhoods who shake their heads and say, "Oh it's such a shame."

But, it comes down to money and an inability to empathize with others. When you're poor enough to have little to lose, you cannot empathize with those you are ultimately stealing from. Even if they have less than you.

you're pretty naive to believe all that. but whatever.

[Lite]

you're pretty naive to believe all that. but whatever.

Pretty naive to do my homework surrounding Mr. King's past and subsequent run-ins with the law since the beating incident? Or that there are more riots in poor neighborhoods? Or which part?

In other news they have arrested the (now) ex BART officer and charged him with murder. Which is what I was waiting for before screaming that someone needs to do something about the police. In this case, the police have arrested him and charged him w/ a crime. It's just kind of how due process is supposed to work.

[misombra]

Pretty naive to do my homework surrounding Mr. King's past and subsequent run-ins with the law since the beating incident? Or that there are more riots in poor neighborhoods? Or which part?

In other news they have arrested the (now) ex BART officer and charged him with murder. Which is what I was waiting for before screaming that someone needs to do something about the police. In this case, the police have arrested him and charged him w/ a crime. It's just kind of how due process is supposed to work.

interesting how it works well for the police and not an average citizen. a lot of people have had run in's with the police. so now that means a cop gets to be the judge and executioner?

also rodney king is a bad example. it was high profile. a lot of this shit happens all the time without anybody knowing. and the news has a good way of covering it all up. also they'll go and drudge up any kind of problems they've had with cops. not even convictions! just arrests! if you're accused, you're guilty in our day and age. due process, yes it is how it is supposed to be isn't it. hmmmmmmm.

the rioting in los angeles after that whole thing wasn't just about rodney king being beaten, it was about the police brutalizing people in general. brutalizing brown people to be more specific.

[Lite]

interesting how it works well for the police and not an average citizen. a lot of people have had run in's with the police. so now that means a cop gets to be the judge and executioner?

also rodney king is a bad example. it was high profile. a lot of this shit happens all the time without anybody knowing. and the news has a good way of covering it all up. also they'll go and drudge up any kind of problems they've had with cops. not even convictions! just arrests! if you're accused, you're guilty in our day and age. due process, yes it is how it is supposed to be isn't it. hmmmmmmm.

the rioting in los angeles after that whole thing wasn't just about rodney king being beaten, it was about the police brutalizing people in general. brutalizing brown people to be more specific.

Actually, racial tensions in LA were going up, and the Rodney King thing was really just the proverbial straw. Had you actually bothered to read the run-up in events prior to it, you'd know that a lot of the hatred in the riots from blacks was directed towards other minorities in "Their neighborhoods" that owned businesses. A black woman was shot by I believe a Korean store owner shortly before King, and a series of other incidents prior to that contributed to it.

However historically the LA riot and its cause were really no different than the Watts riot 35 years prior. Same basic causes, with the same huge economic disadvantage of the community.

Except that 35 years prior most of the businesses were owned by blacks, and supported blue collar communities supported by semi-skilled labor jobs. As those jobs were shipped out of the country/state it created dense pockets of poverty and unemployment.

But the LA riots are a good example of this. Yes the cops overreacted, and their restraint and training should have been better. All 4 cops charged are no longer on the force, even the 2 found innocent of wrongdoing in both the civil and criminal trials.

And why is it that where many of these issues occur are in areas where highest rate of crimes occur? Pretty much you end up with frustrated police trying to do their job stuck between accused of not doing enough to help the citizens, and being overzealous in doing their job. Then you have one cop who commits a crime and people riot in Oakland before an investigation can even be done.

Yes it's a shame it happened, and I hope that justice is done. But the riots were not justice. They were not a cry for help. They were people taking advantage of a situation to cause chaos and disorder for their own gain.

[lesa]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg"]YouTube - Rodney King[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikXImAk9Oc&feature=related[/ame]

[misombra]

oh. well you see i'm not encouraging violence or hatred of cops. i'm just personally upset about all of it. i know there are good cops and society expects them to control or solve all of our societal problems. that upsets me as well. i don't expect everybody to be upset about it and feel the way i do. i just think if i say something to somebody, they'll talk about it with others, and things change that way.

i respect your position. you don't live somewhere where it's that big of a problem.

[Lite]

i respect your position. you don't live somewhere where it's that big of a problem.

That's because I choose not to live there and work hard to not be there. The last place I lived went from new housing development to barrio with shootings in 4 years. I was afraid for my life by the time I moved out. People were shot less than a block from me 2 weeks before I moved.

I had my shit stolen, property vandalized, threats of violence because I was white. All I was doing was going to work, and coming home. Nothing more. I've been on the receiving end of racism.

So, I make sure to not live in such places anymore. It's not so easy for everyone to escape such environs, but a lot of people don't actually bother to try either.

[boobaa]

Police is mostly about demonstration of power, not protection. Or to say, it is more like: my power protects you, you are weak.

You see, system has to establish himself someway. And it uses its enemy for establishment.

Plus, every person is somewhat frustrated, to the system, to the work they do and to the limits this system puts on us. And some of those frustrations can be put to work for power establishment.

[misombra]

That's because I choose not to live there and work hard to not be there. The last place I lived went from new housing development to barrio with shootings in 4 years. I was afraid for my life by the time I moved out. People were shot less than a block from me 2 weeks before I moved.

I had my shit stolen, property vandalized, threats of violence because I was white. All I was doing was going to work, and coming home. Nothing more. I've been on the receiving end of racism.

So, I make sure to not live in such places anymore. It's not so easy for everyone to escape such environs, but a lot of people don't actually bother to try either.

nope. and some people would rather fight for things not be a pussy and run off. where i live my family has lived for many generations. i believe it's worth defending.

[RSK]

another interesting topic!

Society. Upper class, Lower class, blah blah blah. Here is something to think about. A man see's and old lady, and steals her purse with 80 dollars in it. He runs as fast as he can. The police are alerted, and they chase him. As they arrest him, they point guns at him, tell him to get on the floor, and handcuff him right there on the spot.

Okay, now for a second scenario. A CEO or Accountant who has fiddled with some numbers, and has stolen 80 million dollars of shares from innocent people. The police are alerted...

First of all, which of the two guys has committed a worse crime? Secondly, why are each men treated differently? If you let society and its stereotypes get to you, then you will lose focus of the REAL issues at hand, which now of course opens up an entirely new discussion!

If the story I just wrote sounds familiar to you, then you must have watched one of those michael moore documentaries, i can't remember which one, but i will look it up on youtube and post it. He uses a bit of comedy to illustrate kind of what i'm talking about...

[DoesntMatter]

I think Madoff should get the chair

[Nhsponge]

nope. and some people would rather fight for things not be a pussy and run off. where i live my family has lived for many generations. i believe it's worth defending.

I know this response is a little bit to the game, However I wanted to add my two cents. Especially since it seems that this thread kind of got off topic of where it originally started from to where it ended up. I can understand how you could be upset that you got caught for crime that you committed, but It seems interesting to me that you choke it up to police hate like there the bad guys for forcing you to speed and then they punished it for you. You made a choice when you decided to exceed the speed limit. Secondly I have to strongly disagree with your comment on being a "pussy" gang members use the same idea to protect their neighborhood to make it a better place. Its funny how this logic seems to backfire and make the neighbor more safe. Things are always changing and its often due to people laziness that they don't want to take responsibility for what is new. More on to topic though about police, People who seems to hate police are people who tend to break the law and are fearful that they will get caught. There are few unprovoked incidents by the police where they just randomly select people and release brutality on them. While police are not always in the right nor is it excusable for them to use excessive force each officer is a human as well who have fears, thoughts, and need to make quick decisions, not everyone handles stressful situations correctly. Police like people in general just try to the best they can. And for a comment on the last comment about the differential treatment between the criminal who steals a womens purse and the criminal who launders money from a cooperation, There rests are treated based on the amount of violence they are perceived to be capable of. If the purse snatcher just stopped and when the police said halt he would probably be met with less violence and if the money launder resisted arrest he would be met with more violence. However that is rarely the case with crime of that type. I think if you should direct your hate at anything it should be the laws that cause you to break the laws in the first place. If it wasn't against the law to speed then you wouldn't of got a ticket. So instead of blaming the police for doing your job why don't you blame society in general for wanting a law to limit the speed you can drive! Thats just my two cents.