auto industry.

[Mish]

There's nowhere else to go to, we have to find a way to look after and take care of what've got.

[IndiReloaded]

Bah. Pessimist. There's plenty of places to go. The $$$$ that was spent on Iraq, we could have a moon colony already. And think of the new industries that would be created. Solve our economic crises & world population issues in one fell swoop.

You are so keen on being true to man's essential nature. What if our essential nature is to be expansionist? Perhaps its not in our nature to control ourselves by self-imposed limit, but to grow & expand as fast and as well as we possibly can. Fewer ppl on earth = more resources and less strain on the planet. It IS technically feasible, humanity just lacks the collective will. At present.

[DoesntMatter]

The $$$$ that was spent on Iraq, we could have a moon colony already.

... we? Canada didn't spend $1 trillion on Iraq, the US did

If the US put a colony on the moon that would likewise be OUR feat

[IndiReloaded]

True. But the US seems to employ an awful lot of Canadian scientists (and some of their tech) so I'm confident that at least some of us will get there.

Besides, I really don't give a shit about nationality in this, DM. I'm surprised you would even raise this point with me. I couldn't care less if its US, China, India or whoever. So long as some element of humanity gets the hell into space. For me, its all about the species.

[Mish]

Bah. Pessimist. There's plenty of places to go. The $$$$ that was spent on Iraq, we could have a moon colony already.

Come on Indi, moon is barren and unsustainable. On an off chance a few hundred people could be put there, that would not really make any real difference here on earth.

Maybe if you said if more money could have been spent on terraforming and life support technologies, I'd agree.

[IndiReloaded]

I was thinking Mars, actually.

And how many ppl started off being shipped to the New World? A few hundred?

[Mish]

I was thinking Mars, actually.

And how many ppl started off being shipped to the New World? A few hundred?

The new world had fertile soil and good land for as far as the eye could see, it was perfect for the new arrivals. In space we are dealing with something different. I mean, don't get me wrong I like all the science fiction movies about galaxy republics and all, but in reality we are still very far away.

Have you played this computer game called Master of Orion? I think this was where Spore and a bunch of other games got their ideas from. The core to the game was you either first colonize another planer just like earth, or you research terraforming to transform an unsuitable planet to be earth like before you can have a sustainable colony on it

You finish by conqeuring the galaxy. I loved that game!

[TheGreek]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but **** it.

I drive a truck. A 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4 to be exact. The mileage is about 10-12 city and 15-18 highway. Rather poor. But, I love it. It's the king of the road mentality and it's safer. Let's take your Prius/Corolla/Civic whatever and put it up against a larger truck or SUV. Let's crash each of them into a wall at 65 mph, which one would you rather be in?

Also, about not being able to fill tanks, that's bullshit. A Hummer costs roughly $50K to $70K depending on different options and what-not. And a Hummer gets about the same mileage as my truck. If you can spend that kind of money on a vehicle, you can fill the tank. End of discussion. Plus, gas is like $1.51 a gallon now.

Should we bail out the auto industry? Yeah, I think so. The economy is already in the shithole. We need to make the auto industry thrive and get more people to buy American. And I think the American cars need to be built in America, by Americans. Now you're probably saying, then why did you buy a Japanese truck. I did because it's built here, by Americans. There is a plant in Canton, MS that builds the Titan and Armada as well as the Infiniti QX56 (luxury version of the Armada). Your Ford, Dodge, and GM vehicles are made in Mexico, Canada, and the Middle East.

But there must be strict conditions. More than there are now. By 2012, all cars are going to have to be above a certain MPG. That's a step in the right direction. Plus, look at the number of Hybrids coming out now in the American market. Tahoe and Escalade hybrids. In a couple years, Chevy will have a Silverado hybrid. That's another step in the right direction, but personally, I hate hybrids for the status symbol they provide. People think they're saving the planet by driving hybrids, like AJ said, that's bullshit.

Now about the oil companies not looking for alternative fuels, more bullshit. Listen to me when I tell you, diesel will be wiping out gasoline in the near future. It has more BTU's (energy) per gallon then gasoline and is much more efficient. And I bet y'all are saying, yeah, but it pollutes more. Wrong! Diesel burns cleaner than gasoline and causes far less depletion of the ozone compared to gasoline. But what burns even cleaner is diesel fuel not from petroleum. I'm sure you've heard of diesel fuel from waste vegetable oil. It's a great idea, but it's not practical. It works because there is such a small demand for WVO. A better idea than this is diesel fuel from algae. And no, not having to dig deep into the ocean and take away all the algae so all the little animals die, we're talking about man-made algae in greenhouses. Safe for the environment and produced in this country. Shell is working on building one of these greenhouses in Hawaii right now.

After diesel is going to be hydrogen power. It's not practical right now because it takes petroleum to combust the molecules to make pure hydrogen. I read an article about extracting hydrogen molecules from salt water by using sunlight. I forget the scientific name for the chemical process but it does work. We just don't have the technology available to do that yet. And the best thing about hydrogen fuel, one emission: water vapor.

Sorry for the long rant, but I'm bored and figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

[IndiReloaded]

The new world had fertile soil and good land for as far as the eye could see, it was perfect for the new arrivals.

And that's all it had. It certainly didn't have skyscrapers and airplanes and fibre optic cable everywhere. Humans are master environment manipulators. While I agree with the technical issues, don't underestimate just how much progress, and how quickly, humans can achieve when they want to.

[Mish]

And that's all it had. It certainly didn't have skyscrapers and airplanes and fibre optic cable everywhere. Humans are master environment manipulators. While I agree with the technical issues, don't underestimate just how much progress, and how quickly, humans can achieve when they want to.

Yeh that's true. Those things took another 400 years. I suppose if we put a few hundred on another planet we might have something half way decent there in 400 years time

Talking about New World, I'm playing Sid Meir's "Pirates" game right now. It's really addictive, educational and entertaining, your son might like it (Not sure of the rating though). It has a story line which you execute through a lot of mini games some are more action others more stratigic, but most require development of tactical skills. There's a new world map to explore.

Check it out

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Pirates!_(2004[/url])

[url]http://au.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidpirates/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=su mmary;read-review[/url]

[misombra]

Oh come on, Miso, I know you're with me on this. What we need is to get off this rock. We've nearly outgrown it.

i would miss the earth. i would hate myself and all other humans for killing her.

i would rather kill mass amounts of people and let the auto industry fail than watch the earth die.

[misombra]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but **** it.

I drive a truck. A 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4 to be exact. The mileage is about 10-12 city and 15-18 highway. Rather poor. But, I love it. It's the king of the road mentality and it's safer. Let's take your Prius/Corolla/Civic whatever and put it up against a larger truck or SUV. Let's crash each of them into a wall at 65 mph, which one would you rather be in?

Also, about not being able to fill tanks, that's bullshit. A Hummer costs roughly $50K to $70K depending on different options and what-not. And a Hummer gets about the same mileage as my truck. If you can spend that kind of money on a vehicle, you can fill the tank. End of discussion. Plus, gas is like $1.51 a gallon now.

Should we bail out the auto industry? Yeah, I think so. The economy is already in the shithole. We need to make the auto industry thrive and get more people to buy American. And I think the American cars need to be built in America, by Americans. Now you're probably saying, then why did you buy a Japanese truck. I did because it's built here, by Americans. There is a plant in Canton, MS that builds the Titan and Armada as well as the Infiniti QX56 (luxury version of the Armada). Your Ford, Dodge, and GM vehicles are made in Mexico, Canada, and the Middle East.

But there must be strict conditions. More than there are now. By 2012, all cars are going to have to be above a certain MPG. That's a step in the right direction. Plus, look at the number of Hybrids coming out now in the American market. Tahoe and Escalade hybrids. In a couple years, Chevy will have a Silverado hybrid. That's another step in the right direction, but personally, I hate hybrids for the status symbol they provide. People think they're saving the planet by driving hybrids, like AJ said, that's bullshit.

Now about the oil companies not looking for alternative fuels, more bullshit. Listen to me when I tell you, diesel will be wiping out gasoline in the near future. It has more BTU's (energy) per gallon then gasoline and is much more efficient. And I bet y'all are saying, yeah, but it pollutes more. Wrong! Diesel burns cleaner than gasoline and causes far less depletion of the ozone compared to gasoline. But what burns even cleaner is diesel fuel not from petroleum. I'm sure you've heard of diesel fuel from waste vegetable oil. It's a great idea, but it's not practical. It works because there is such a small demand for WVO. A better idea than this is diesel fuel from algae. And no, not having to dig deep into the ocean and take away all the algae so all the little animals die, we're talking about man-made algae in greenhouses. Safe for the environment and produced in this country. Shell is working on building one of these greenhouses in Hawaii right now.

After diesel is going to be hydrogen power. It's not practical right now because it takes petroleum to combust the molecules to make pure hydrogen. I read an article about extracting hydrogen molecules from salt water by using sunlight. I forget the scientific name for the chemical process but it does work. We just don't have the technology available to do that yet. And the best thing about hydrogen fuel, one emission: water vapor.

Sorry for the long rant, but I'm bored and figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

oh, you're texan. figures.

[doppelgaenger]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but **** it.

I drive a truck. A 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4 to be exact. The mileage is about 10-12 city and 15-18 highway. Rather poor. But, I love it. It's the king of the road mentality and it's safer. Let's take your Prius/Corolla/Civic whatever and put it up against a larger truck or SUV. Let's crash each of them into a wall at 65 mph, which one would you rather be in?

King of the road my ass.

Trucks are actually more dangerous than cars. They tip over rather easily, they're bigger, which means they are more liable to be hit by other vehicles, and if there is shit in the cargo, that can be hazardous to other cars (I was driving behind some jackass on the freeway, and his dartgun (in the case) came flying out of his cargo and ****ing hit my car and had I been any closer, it would have came through the windshield, and killed my little sister who was sitting in the back seat, laughing and behaving innocent 2 year old self.)

Modern trucks are made out of the same plasticy material that cars are. If you hit a wall going 65mph in any vehicle, you'll more than likely die.

In fact, my personal opinion of most people who get trucks is that they do it to accommodate their lack of penis length.

[Junket]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but **** it.

I drive a truck. A 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4 to be exact. The mileage is about 10-12 city and 15-18 highway. Rather poor. But, I love it. It's the king of the road mentality and it's safer. Let's take your Prius/Corolla/Civic whatever and put it up against a larger truck or SUV. Let's crash each of them into a wall at 65 mph, which one would you rather be in?

I agree with some of the points you said, but this especially is one of the poorest excuses to drive a truck or SUV.

First of all, all vehicles meet or exceed certain standards that negates your argument right there. Who would even consider buying a small vehicle when they could "dominate" the road with all the other truck drivers? Also, have you researched the effects of driving your truck, compared to any other modern car into a wall at 65 miles per hour?

There's a reason why not all trucks get perfect stars for safety.

Ever heard of "rollover"?

Have you ever driven in a city? Calibers, Fits, and Smart Cars are the Kings of those roads. Good luck finding a parking space, and good luck swerving through traffic.

If you're gonna own at truck, own it for the right reasons.

1.) You gotta haul shit on a regular basis.

2.) You live in areas where you can get real use out of the 4x4.

3.) You prefer to see over other cars.

4.) You can afford it.

I hope you don't have one of those "crew" cab trucks, they're so dumb. It's an SUV with the back cut off. The flatbed is virtually useless. Half the people I see driving them would never even use the flatbed out of necessity. Soccer moms that don't want a minivan or normal SUV.

The only reasonable excuse I can see to own one of those is if you work on a job site where you need to haul tools and equipment along with laborers.

[IndiReloaded]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Pirates!_(2004[/url])

Sold. I needed an idea for xmas. If it comes for Mac, that's his present. Thanks Uncle Mish.