Black hole

[lesa]

It's not useless information. I've done basic research that barely seems to have a medical application to the general public.

[Asparagoose]

It's not useless information. I've done basic research that barely seems to have a medical application to the general public.

Like what? Breast mitosis as an alternative to implants?

[Junket]

Medical application?

Who cares about that shit?

We need a black hole weapon!

[Gribble]

People who call the LHC useless are probably the same people who would have called the moon landings useless back in the day.

They have the privilege of griping about the LHC on a micro-computer courtesy of NASA. Hell, possibly even the privilege of breathing courtesy of the advances NASA paved the way for.

[DoesntMatter]

I'm sorry to tell you that if that is your only influence and interest in science.

My only interest in science is that it a means of achieving wealth

No DM. Its not any more complicated than when Newton first published his ideas. Its all relative to what you are used to thinking about, that is all. Newton revolutionized math & physics because he radically changed the gestalt of how we thought about the universe.

Hardly. It’s not all just “relative to what you are used to thinking about”, that is the response of an intellectual who can’t be bothered to properly learn the stuff. Newton’s fundamental ideas of calculus are easy to understand after the discovery by most people. The problems in physics now require having an understanding of physics and math that go well beyond just some simple understanding of calculus. For instance, the reason I had to drop quantum mechanics is because I hadn’t taken a semester of linear algebra and multivariable calculus yet (linear algebra rocks, btw)

It can take 5 minutes to learn how the concept of a derivative was born, what it means, how it can be used and manipulated, etc. In the 1600s or whatever that was as far as it got. Now, things like that are just the most basic tools of physics that you need to know inside and out to know anything about more advanced stuff

[blackzj52]

can i put my ex in there? please?

[boobaa]

Btw, if someone don't know yet, you can view the LHC live at: [url]http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html[/url]

[anachronistic]

My only interest in science is that it a means of achieving wealth

You're not going to make it very far.

[DoesntMatter]

You're not going to make it very far.

Who are you telling me what I can do? I've found other peoples judgements of what I can do to always be complete and utter bullshit. I can do almost anything except get a girlfriend or get laid, because that involves another persons free will

[Junket]

Who are you telling me what I can do? I've found other peoples judgements of what I can do to always be complete and utter bullshit. I can do almost anything except get a girlfriend or get laid, because that involves another persons free will

You could always forcibly persuade a girl to have sex with you...

[anachronistic]

Who are you telling me what I can do? I've found other peoples judgements of what I can do to always be complete and utter bullshit. I can do almost anything except get a girlfriend or get laid, because that involves another persons free will

Funny you should say that after pretty much doing the same thing I did to you, to someone else just before.

How does the medicine taste?

[IndiReloaded]

Hardly. It’s not all just “relative to what you are used to thinking about”, that is the response of an intellectual who can’t be bothered to properly learn the stuff. Newton’s fundamental ideas of calculus are easy to understand after the discovery by most people.

DM, you are simply very ignorant in this regard.

You don't even have a BSc yet so you are largely blowing smoke out your ass. You are forgiven. But stop trying to dissuade ppl from being interested in science. They don't need to understand about structure functions to appreciate what the LHC experiments represent.

Go read a book other than your undergrad texts and learn something, Grasshopper.

[DoesntMatter]

Funny you should say that after pretty much doing the same thing I did to you, to someone else just before.

How does the medicine taste?

Actually I wasn't lw. What I WAS saying is that passively observing the project without knowledge of certain things such as physics isn't going to give you a greater understanding of anything, except maybe how such projects work economically

You don't even have a BSc yet so you are largely blowing smoke out your ass.

This is all your argument amounts to? This is all most of your arguments amount to anyways so I shouldn't be surprised, even when I change the tone of it to a technical nature like water powered cars thread. You like the technique of discrediting someone by acting like you're above an argument with them. Your rebuttals never amount to anything more than "You're an undergrad" and "Read a book and learn something"

But stop trying to dissuade ppl from being interested in science. They don't need to understand about structure functions to appreciate what the LHC experiments represent.

I'm not trying to hurt peoples interest in science. I'm trying to say passive observation won't lend any true understanding of the discoveries if you aren't in understanding of more basic ideas upon which it was built

Go read a book other than your undergrad texts and learn something, Grasshopper.

The content of that statement is just plain dumb, but the effect, you got, and is all you were looking for

It's also almost too general to respond to. There is a hierarchy in learning things, and steps cannot just be skipped. Should I just forget about learning basic concepts in physics and immediately enroll in a particle physics class?

You know the reason I have to postpone quantum mechanics until next year? I was lacking 2 prerequisites, linear algebra which I'm taking now and multivariable calculus. Yeah, you ever hear of a prerequisite? Any idea why they exist?

So that material introduced in more advanced topics can be understood! Such as in my case, linear algebra is a prerequisite for quantum mechancis. Now why is that?

Well, the H in the Schrodinger equation is the Hamiltonian operator. They assume you know the ins and outs of a linear transformation. Now, would I have been able to understand the significance of that several weeks ago before I had an understanding of it? Ummm, no. In other words, to do quantum mechanics, you need to know linear algebra. SIMPLE

[IndiReloaded]

Sorry, DM, but just how many papers have you published again?

You are foolish to be arguing w/me about this. You know very well my background & that it totally owns you right now. In 10 years & a PhD later, perhaps the tables will be turned. I actually quite hope so else we aren't doing our job.

I never said one doesn't need to understand high-level math & physics to understand the *details* of the LHC experiments. I simply said that the average person can understand, at least generally, what they are doing. In fact, I think that scientists owe that to society, to explain in laypersons terms what they are doing & why.

[IndiReloaded]

While I'm here & on this rant I should add that I think scientists owe society to explain in laypersons terms what they are doing & why. And not just b/c many scientists are spending public taxpayer's money to do their work, tho that's certainly part of it.

DM, you seem to think that science is this big, black box that the average person should just resign themselves to the fact that they will never be able to understand.

Way to promote the God Complex that so many scientists already have. DM, you need to realize science & medicine (your interest, I know) is just a job. Right now, as a student, this is difficult for you to appreciate but once you are in the field I think this will make more sense to you. If more non-scientists were actually interested in what we do, then mbe we wouldn't have the funding difficulties that currently exist in certain fields. Scientists can help greatly with this by actually making their work MORE accessible and understandable to the public. Communication of that sort can only help progress. What you suggest, telling ppl they couldn't possibly begin to understand is both an insult to their general intelligence and is simply not true. A true genius excels at this type of explanation. Just read any of Einstein's general works on Relativity (you should do this, btw)--you don't need a ton of math to understand & appreciate his ideas.

For you specifically, you will find as a future physician that you will achieve much better results with your patients if you don't assume they are too dumb to understand your work. The best doctors work *with* their patients nowadays. They understand, particularly with the internet resources that are available, that their patients are quite informed & they respect that. Bet your ass that many of your patients will be more current with what's on Medline regarding their ailment than you will be, if you doubt this, just ask Cain or Vash or RK just how much patients know these days. You might want to consider wrapping your brain around this concept before your med school interviews, btw. A perfect grade-point average is not enough to get one into med school these days.