Teen Tries to sell Vote...

[vashti]

Who will have the authority to police it? Who will have the authority to write the tests?

Misombra...

[anachronistic]

I will concockt you, Vashti.

[Junket]

Y'know what would happen.

The masses who don't know little more than how to shoot a gun would overthrow the intellectual elite.

[Mish]

I always thought it would be an interesting social experiment to see what would happen if a country were ruled by an oligarchy composed of sociologists, philosophers, psychologists, astronomers, mathematicians, etc. A country not ruled by whoever happens to be the most charming or eloquent, but a country ruled by the most well-educated and thoughtful.

Under Monarchy most of the ruling classes were well-educated and thoughtful people because they were the elite with enough money and power to afford all of the education they needed. Overall they were quite intelligent, their main problem it turned out to be lack of empathy. In the end majority generally considered themselves as the superior class and the rest as voiceless animals who should be subservient to them. Their goal became to serve themselves and take from those who were powerless. They had all the power and they abused it to such an extent that almost each and every single one of them fell in the end under the sword of the disgruntled masses.

I can't help but believe that given a choice history would repeat itself.

[Gribble]

We can work with the model. There would be no Manifest Destiny. The oligarchy doesn't have to have absolute power and there can still be elections. Give the people a pool of suitable candidates and let them pick the handsomest, most silver-tongued of the lot if it keeps them happy. Maybe we can work out a utopia where intellectuals are worshiped and emulated rather than the sluts, alcoholics, and steroid abusers that claim the limelight today.

[Mish]

There would be no Manifest Destiny. The oligarchy doesn't have to have absolute power and there can still be elections.

How will they not have an absolute power if a candidate will always be an oligarch? The rich and the powerful will have the best access to the most advanced education and in turn this education will give them control and more riches. They will cement their power in their bloodline just like every other monarch before them. Who will stop them when it gets out of control like that?

[Gribble]

The rich and the powerful currently do run the world...

The idea isn't to take the oil barons that run off to college, nab a degree, and go off to run businesses. The idea is to put professors and the like in positions of power. People who don't necessarily have a great deal of money. The most highly educated often aren't the most wealthy. They're typically the sort of people who spend their whole lives in a university studying, researching, pushing the envelope of human knowledge, etc., without running off to accept a high-paying job. Noam Chomsky is the type of man I have in mind.

Oligarchy isn't the right word for it. Basically, take a system similar to what the US has now. But replace the president with a small group of intellectuals. Compose the group of men who are extremely intelligent, regardless of their lack of personality or common sense. Pair them off with a couple of folk who are a bit more down to earth and capable of understanding the people. Hence the sociologist and psychologist of the group. A combination of theoretical thinkers and fact-driven thinkers.

[vashti]

Noam Chomsky is the type of man I have in mind.

God forbid!

Anyway, I agree with some of what you propose, but instead of men, I think it should be women running the show.

[Gribble]

Well, yeah, Chomsky's controversial, but I couldn't think of a more famous man who fits the profile. What do you have against him, anyway?

As for a group of women calling the shots? Erm. I'd hate to see what would happen to the world when that time of the month rolled around.

[Mish]

Noam Chomsky is the type of man I have in mind.

Oligarchy isn't the right word for it. Basically, take a system similar to what the US has now. But replace the president with a small group of intellectuals. Compose the group of men who are extremely intelligent, regardless of their lack of personality or common sense. Pair them off with a couple of folk who are a bit more down to earth and capable of understanding the people. Hence the sociologist and psychologist of the group. A combination of theoretical thinkers and fact-driven thinkers.

I respect Noam Chomsky, he has some good ideas (as well as some extreme ones). Not sure about his anarchist leanings. What you propose makes sense. What I'm concerned about is power shared by a small percentage of population. An extreme minority ruling over the majority. An extreme minority is ussually out of touch with the rest of the population thus they can't effectively govern and end up pursuing their own interests. They may not be oil barons when they start, but as they say absolute power corrupts absolutely. It won't be long until they are racing to the bottom like the other Oligarchs if there's nothing keeping them in check.

[vashti]

I'd hate to see what would happen to the world when that time of the month rolled around.

Oh, pish. I refer to that time as my moments of clarity. The rest of the month, you guys get away with murder.

Anyway, I consider Noam Chomsky the left wing equivelent of Richard Cheney. All extremists are crazy.

[IndiReloaded]

Y'know what would happen.

The masses who don't know little more than how to shoot a gun would overthrow the intellectual elite.

That already happened when Bush got reelected.

I'd buy a US vote on eBay, just to see if I could.

[IndiReloaded]

The rich and the powerful currently do run the world...

The idea isn't to take the oil barons that run off to college, nab a degree, and go off to run businesses. The idea is to put professors and the like in positions of power. People who don't necessarily have a great deal of money. The most highly educated often aren't the most wealthy. They're typically the sort of people who spend their whole lives in a university studying, researching, pushing the envelope of human knowledge, etc., without running off to accept a high-paying job. Noam Chomsky is the type of man I have in mind.

Oligarchy isn't the right word for it. Basically, take a system similar to what the US has now. But replace the president with a small group of intellectuals. Compose the group of men who are extremely intelligent, regardless of their lack of personality or common sense. Pair them off with a couple of folk who are a bit more down to earth and capable of understanding the people. Hence the sociologist and psychologist of the group. A combination of theoretical thinkers and fact-driven thinkers.

How do you get ppl to vote for this kind of system, Grib? Most ppl are either intimidated or put off by very intellectual sorts. They can't relate.

Anyway, I think a lot of politicians ARE very intelligent. Perhaps not academically, but they know how to manipulate ppl. Something many scientists simply have no interest in (which is why they choose to study bugs or stars & not ppl).

Norm Chomsky, hoo-boy. He's got some interesting vids on utube these days. I like him, tho (big surprise).

[IndiReloaded]

We can work with the model. There would be no Manifest Destiny. The oligarchy doesn't have to have absolute power and there can still be elections. Give the people a pool of suitable candidates and let them pick the handsomest, most silver-tongued of the lot if it keeps them happy. Maybe we can work out a utopia where intellectuals are worshiped and emulated rather than the sluts, alcoholics, and steroid abusers that claim the limelight today.

Grib, you should read Cherryh's "Cyteen" (a personal favourite), you'd enjoy it a lot. Also Huxley's "Island", tho its a bit hard-going compared to BNW.

[Gribble]

How do you get ppl to vote for this kind of system, Grib? Most ppl are either intimidated or put off by very intellectual sorts. They can't relate.

That's the problem. Nobody's going to vote for a short and tubby 60 year old balding man who can barely string a coherent sentence together in public, regardless of how brilliant he is. I dunno... mandatory sterilization for all people with an IQ under 130? Selectively breed a population of intellectuals? Everyone else would have to engage in huge orgies to keep the population from falling dramatically. I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Are you?

Or maybe the real leaders are kept behind the curtain. An Illuminati-esque council pulling the strings of a popularly elected president. I'm still partial to the orgy model, though.

Anyway, I think a lot of politicians ARE very intelligent. Perhaps not academically, but they know how to manipulate ppl. Something many scientists simply have no interest in (which is why they choose to study bugs or stars & not ppl).

Oh yes. I agree. Politicians are very good at what they do. But like you said, what they're good at is manipulating. The fact that scientists have no interest in it is what makes them so appealing. It's the guy who doesn't want power but who accepts the responsibility that I want in charge. Not the power-hungry man who's about 6'2, broad shouldered, silver-haired, square-jawed, and a flawless orator. Our leaders are selected for their looks just as much as their credentials.

Cyteen looks pretty interesting. I'll have to pick that up. Been meaning to read some science fiction for once.