Why is it that I always miss out?

[DoesntMatter]

Yeah, you gotta let girls see your cocky side too. Whatever it takes to bring that out. But then at a different time or place be nice to THEM

[zoso]

Are you trying for the wrong kind of girl?
I'm just asking, since you said no girl you try for ever works out...

And you also said how the "loud aggressive" guys get the girls you're trying to talk to... well, do you fight back? And I don't literally mean fight of course, but I mean if they interrupt the conversation or whatever you're doing, can you ignore him or something along those lines and just get her focus back on you? It's alright to be loud and aggressive when it's appropriate.

[bigfella247]

boobaa
"Don't hope. Speak up when needed. But don't overreact. Remember, talk is silver, silence is gold."

an odd statement, I usually talk with people when I'm out, maybe I think that I'll end up being interpreted as intelligent and I can be silent too when I can't think of anything to say or don't feel like doing anything except watching her as I scuffle about the crowded dancefloor with the group! care to expand on that one a bit?

"How do you feel like dancing btw? Do you ever dance, at home when listening to music for example? If so, next time you are in some new party, ask some girl to dance, see what happens. However, don't get your hopes up with that one case because that is just practice for more until you are confident enough to get what you want."

I don't really dance - well until lately. I'm kinda stiff, it means I'm better at close hold in formals/deb balls! but I'm kinda lost on the bass pounding, strobe-lit thrashing about in a night club. Though I did try and fix that the other night and I got a bit into it! a big achievement!
so 'asking for a dance' is the way to go huh? is that where you move off towards the middle of the room and scuffle around away from everone else

shh!
"Have you tried asking your more sucessful buddies for some tips? You might try to mimic some of their mannerisms."

I could try and ask some yes!

"In my experience, though, "nice" guys are often perceived as "too soft". Do you have an issue with setting boundaries, or do you act like a doormat sometimes?"

I'm not sure if I'm too soft or not. It can be easy to be a doormat in life, but there are some areas/opinions I definitely do not back down on/away from!

DoesntMatter
"Yeah, you gotta let girls see your cocky side too. Whatever it takes to bring that out."

I do have an incredibly strong opinion/sense of morality which does get me in healthy debates

"But then at a different time or place be nice to THEM"

That part I can manage, hopefully not too nice, that has had bad results

zoso

"Are you trying for the wrong kind of girl?
I'm just asking, since you said no girl you try for ever works out..."

well I may be trying for the wrong girls, far too attractive ones perhaps where our minds don't work on the same wavelength - so much so that talking doesn't even work! It seem that the only girls that 'work' with me are taken/my best friends and - I feel absolutely rotten and shallow about saying this one - not what I see as physically attractive.

"And you also said how the "loud aggressive" guys get the girls you're trying to talk to... well, do you fight back? And I don't literally mean fight of course, but I mean if they interrupt the conversation or whatever you're doing, can you ignore him or something along those lines and just get her focus back on you? It's alright to be loud and aggressive when it's appropriate."

The loud and aggressive thing was just something I heard somewhere, I'm not really meek at all, I'm over 6 feet tall, broadest shoulders in the west, well-built (They call me Hagrid) I was told that I have a loud heavy laugh that can warm the dead...I can go on. I may try as you say and not let others bumb in on me

[Kromat]

Get them to dance, have a sense of humor and take an
approach that your not afraid to get interested.
See how she responds, and respond accordingly.
As long as your trying and not making her nervous, it'll work out.

Approach a girl and see what she does to you and counter it, so it doesn't effect you
and you project yourself as being someone that is strong and with some guts.

Screw all the rules and just go for it, and that your not as fake as the
rest of them, this is how you are, and no one is going to change that.

[Mish]

Things still have not progressed in these past months, I feel increasingly depressed and lonely, as if I'm the only person who is single (which is even to me, obviously untrue)

I started being more proactive as was suggested, I talk to lots of people and go out more with all the uni crowd. But as natural selection would have it...the loud, attractive and the agressive get everyone I try to strike up a conversation with...meaning I'm left in a corner with mates or talking to girls who have boyfriends (innocently -I'm no thief) while my 'favoured' mates are dancing with a throng of single attractive girls

It's beginning to look that way - I hope. Is it that I and all the nice-guys have to wait for girls to grow up so they can notice us?

If it's been a couple of months and you're still not getting the dates, most likely you're doing something wrong

- How many single girls do you know that you are interested in? How much time do you spend talking to them? (and about what)

- How much effort do you put into finding new single girls? (Have you tried previously suggested single sites? Do make an effort to look for them at uni, at work, through friends, do you go out to places with singles women?)

- How do you interact with single girls? What do you do when you talk to them? Do you flirt? Do you make use of body language? Do you touch with them often? (If you answered no to the last three questions you have problems with intuition and you need to find ways to socially calibrate it)

[bigfella247]

hmm, sounds like I need to have a look at where I'm going. I feel like such a failure, but almost feel that I'm not doing anything to be getting anything wrong, yet another part of me tells me that I work so hard to find someone. Thats the rather paradoxical way of my life, I cannot determine whether or not I'm doing anything right, let alone whether I'm actually doing anything. That probably didn't make sense anywhere outside of my mind...

Maybe I need to review my 'hunting' techniques in 2 weeks or so - once I finish my exams.

[Lipp]

And here's the analysis.

"NICE guys knew it, now two studies have confirmed it: bad boys get the most girls. The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the "dark triad" persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs."

Full article - [url]http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg19826614.100-bad-guys-really-do-get-the-most-girls.html[/url]

[DoesntMatter]

Yahoo had a couple of news articles a few weeks ago about the same thing, only it was based on some other study IIRC

But as for the OP, you can't change who you are, so better find some way that YOU can attract girls. I can't win over girls in social settings or by looks or character, so I'm going the money route. You gotta be in it for the long haul. Whatever advantages you can think to use, use them

[Kromat]

hmm, sounds like I need to have a look at where I'm going. I feel like such a failure, but almost feel that I'm not doing anything to be getting anything wrong, yet another part of me tells me that I work so hard to find someone. Thats the rather paradoxical way of my life, I cannot determine whether or not I'm doing anything right, let alone whether I'm actually doing anything. That probably didn't make sense anywhere outside of my mind...

Maybe I need to review my 'hunting' techniques in 2 weeks or so - once I finish my exams.

Your trying too hard that's the problem, your over analyzing what could go wrong, instead what will happen, if you tried it out.
Do you think a girl wants to have a guy, that isn't ready to take the next step, or actually have the guts to talk to her, I don't think so.
They're there to be approached, so show them a fun time, and I'll be appreciated, even if you have time to use for your exams, give yourself a night day and just try exploring yourself and let it just happen.
I have opened up a lot lately, and have been seeing amazing results, and it doesn't work every time, but you learn from it and try to improve your personality, so that you feel more comfortable when you need to stand up for yourself and be a man.

P.S. We can give you suggestions, but ultimately, you have to decide what type of personality you want to have and approach it that way, and that you feel natural.

[Gribble]

Trick is to wear a bad boy veneer while harboring a nice guy within. If you can manage that you're golden.

[Kromat]

Yahoo had a couple of news articles a few weeks ago about the same thing, only it was based on some other study IIRC

But as for the OP, you can't change who you are, so better find some way that YOU can attract girls. I can't win over girls in social settings or by looks or character, so I'm going the money route. You gotta be in it for the long haul. Whatever advantages you can think to use, use them

The money route is a horrible excuse, I doubt how much I'll be making, will make a difference, if the connection is not there.
Your a lot better looking than i am, but that won't stop me from getting to know someone, if I'm up for a challenge.
Your personality isn't strong enough to face rejection, that's why you say to yourself that your not attractive.
If you stopped thinking your unattractive DM, and just showed them a fun time, it wouldn't be so hard as you think.

[DoesntMatter]

" The whole ‘nice guy’ phenomenon really supports the idea that people primarily care about physical appearances and that shrewdness, selfishness and narcissism will always triumph over compassion, rapport and “inner beauty.” "

From UrbanDictionary, on what a nice guy is... Kind of extrapolates on what the study showed

[Kromat]

You can be a nice guy and take charge too, sometimes we don't take enough
risks when we need too and opportunities don't present themselves.

I know what I'm capable of, he needs to finds out what he is, in order to overcome this fear, because that's all it is.
The more he does it and gains the confidence, that's the only way it'll become natural and actually believe in himself
that he can do whatever he puts his mind too, because the only person that is going to stop him, is himself.

P.S. You can think that I'm full of myself, but I'm not afraid to stand up for myself, when I'm being
treated unfairly, if there would be a problem, I'd like to know how I'd be able to improve on myself.

[bigfella247]

thats a lot to absorb...but I'll work on it

[shh!]

" The whole ‘nice guy’ phenomenon really supports the idea that people primarily care about physical appearances and that shrewdness, selfishness and narcissism will always triumph over compassion, rapport and “inner beauty.” "

From UrbanDictionary, on what a nice guy is... Kind of extrapolates on what the study showed

I'm not buying that study entirely. Yes, I think young girls are attracted to assholes, but eventually they get burned and they learn to appreciate decent men. (unless they are idiots) I don't have many friends who ended up marrying a bad boy, and those who did ended up divorced and remarried to decent men.

As bluesummer said, nice guys finish last, but they finish best.