And Whose Feeling the Negative Vibe NOW?

[squirrley]

ME! Geezuz over the last week and talking to several women-dating does suck-men dont get it do they? I know Im gonna get bashed to no end here-but Im feeling so damn torked off...for a first since I joined I feel pissed off!

Ive met and know some pretty darn great woman-and I cant figure out WHY or HOW were feeling the way we are...just want to give up on dating altogether. ALL of the women Ive spoken with want a relationship, want romance, want all the wonderful things a partner does for them-but what in the hell is it? All of my friends have been indepedant for at least a year-come across someone who THINK is Mr. Wonderful-things get going and then somewhere we're like "**** it." We have come to the line and or have crossed the line and have told that person "Im done".

I just dont get the whole dating game-it sucks...why cant people just be who they are? Forget the damn rules. I dont know what to say to my friends other than Im feeling crappy too-I dont know-a round table of sighs and what to do's...we're all stable women who want the same things in life and know we DONT need a man to fulfill our lives-but it would just be nice to have someone whose normal...and stays that way...

in other discussions-men seem to think that once they've "got you" then thats it...nothing else has to be done-WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? forget about the little things now? My married friends are feeling this way also...by nature women are nurturing at least the friends I have and I see it.

Im NOT bashing all men here-Im just trying to understand why ALL of my friends(including me at times) cant figure this out...why men are oblivious to the little things and sometimes the big things. In talking to one man (whose very wise) said men are just idiots they dont know any better. For a minute that was enough to pacify my thoughts-A MINUTE. Men are walking too-get with it-there are so many wonderful women out there who have such great qualties and if they would just open their eyes or their hearts they see it! And if they had enough commom sense theyd recoginize what kind of person she truly is and wouldnt do anyting stupid to **** it up. Because TODAY woman wont put up with that shit and they'll walk cause they dont need it.

It frustrates me to no end...I see so many wonderful things in my friends and I dont understand why this happens. By the end of our discussions we've given up on men. Yea I remember a convo with someone on here awhile ago and made the comment "no wonder there are more lesbians today!" Right Halla? remember that little convo way back when? lol

Is it because men are afraid? I have no answers for my friends nor myself. For the first time Squirrley is at a loss of words. How do I turn this one around? Im always an optimistic person and when Im feeling down about something I do find the positive. I cant with this one... I feel so down and out that I cant help them and I cant figure it out myself.

[Killerbabe]

Well, squirrley, I guess I could say that we're all in one big boat heading somewhere very far away, but decidedly in one direction. I don't know why so many men do the things they do.

I have a great girlfriend (the girl I was with yesterday) and she's only 20 but already discouraged. HELLO she's only 20! Already giving up on men! She's got it all, really, she's awfully pretty (has a striking resmblence to Cameron Diaz by the way, and just as charming), has a great style and a sense of elegance. She's not one of those cheap attention whores! She goes to two universities and has two jobs (as a journalist and secretary at Baker and McKenzie law firm). Doesn't even have a diploma yet! Is smart, moderately modest, and fun to hang out with! And she realizes that!!

BUT --- Still no man.

I am not married nor have lots of dating experience but from what I gather, married men get sick of their wives and cheat on them. Am slowly cultivating a cheat-proof complex. Am easily thrown off balance by a short skirt and consequently throw jealous fits.

Have discovered that am no woman of the 21st century, am very needy and insecure suddenly. WHY? Because I've been dating my precious (very precious) boyfriend for over a year.

[Ratfish256]

Well thats like your opinion man. I am a guy and I agree that the chase is fun, but not nearly half as fun as afterwords. I find myself looking fowards to doing all those things that she loves. Nothing could make me more happy than making someone that I love happy. Don't give up on us yet. Im sure there are still a few more out there like me.

[squirrley]

It is my opinion sure-and the general consensus of MY circle of friends...

I just dont understand thats all and I have no way of turning these frowns upside down. I have no doubts there are a great men out there Ratfish-but from our standpoint-its more than just finding Mr. Wonderful-its the fact were just tired of it all-and ready to possibly throw in the towel. Staying single is not so bad. I did it for 5 years and kinda liked it-but women get to a point where they want the companionship but at what cost? Shoot I wish I had recorded everything everyone said-because some valid points were made...I just know its heart breaking to me to see these things happen to my friends and myself at times.

Relationships are a two way street-why does it feel like its always going one way for some people? I dont get it...

[Prodigal]

Yeah, that's really true. A lot of people just DON'T have the common sense to recognize a great person and to treat that person right if they are in a relationship. I thought that common sense was 'common'. I used to assume that everyone had it... but it really isn't as 'common' as people may think.

I'm guessing that when you're talking about 'men' in general, you're talking about the ones who don't treat women right, aren't committed, only want sex, etc.? You're not specific at all when you use the word 'men'. Not all men are the same. Honestly, it really, REALLY pisses me off when I see a man mistreat his girlfriend/wife. As long as she didn't cheat on him, murder somebody, or did something else that's really immoral and out there, I don't really think he has justification to hit her. He has a right to yell at her sometimes, if she did something wrong, but seeing that in public disgusts me. Men should at least have the decency and restraint to hold back his forthcoming anger until they get home or to the car.

I see many wonderful things in my friends too. Friends who have been single for a long time, some of whom don't want a relationship again for a long time to come. I've wondered the same thing you have... not just for women, but for men, too. YES, I just said that. I know that because I'M a man and that I've experienced this myself.

You probably didn't read it, but I started a thread about wanting to become a monk a week or two ago. The truth was that I didn't really want to become a monk, but because I was so frustrated about relationships and wanted to give up altogether. No, let me change that. I still want to give up.

My answer to your question is this: First of all, whoever you talked to is right. Most people are idiots. Most people don't have that supposed 'common' sense. Most people get in a relationship and end up messing around with others, abusing their "s.o.", only wanting sex... you know, all those shallow things that show that the two don't love or even show a genuine interest in one another.

Maybe I'm a dreamer. Hell, **** the maybe. I KNOW I'm a dreamer. I'm one of those people who think that there's someone out there for everyone. It may not be one specific person, but I think there is at least someone out there. The thing I value most is real love, and what I mean by that is a love that isn't shallow. Two people that, most importantly, love each other for who the other is, not for other reasons, such as physical appearance, social status, money, etc. If you 'love' someone primarily for one of these reasons, you don't love that person. You're in love with that aspect of them... something that is something they have, but isn't essentially part of them. Sounds confusing, but I think you understand. People who respect each other and take time for each other... but DON'T get overobsessive.

I know it's coming, so I'll just say it now: I don't want to hear the idealistic bashes against me. I already know that I am too utopian, too idealistic... that's why I don't feel like I belong on this world. So save the bashes, please. I don't need to hear them, nor does anyone else. It won't change me, anyway.

To continue with my answer to your question: Secondly, maybe your friends attract the wrong guys. Maybe your friends just AREN'T attracted to these guys that they would probably want. From what I hear from you, it seems like they want men who notice the small things, have 'common' sense, who recognize the woman's good qualities... etc. This boils down to treating a woman with respect and trying to spend time with them more often. I'll admit that I don't usually notice the small things. I'll notice if you got a full-on haircut or something, but don't expect me to notice if your hair stylist took an inch and a half off. I probably wouldn't notice if you were wearing a new outfit, but I would sure as hell notice that you look stunning in it. Most men don't notice all the tiny things... but what they may notice is the effect it has on you... which is important.

Have you ever gone out with your friends, or talked with them, and seen or talked about some guy who was a gentleman? A guy who was nice, generous, caring, understanding... no, I'm not talking about those stupid muscular guys on those romance novels. I mean just a down-to-earth, easy to talk to, amiable guy. Do they ever say, "Wow, I wish I could go out with that guy", or seem attracted to him? In almost any wind, I'd highly doubt it. I don't think women are attracted to guys like this. It seems as if they are attracted to the ones who they know will treat them bad! Women seem to want to get with this guy who was badass, then miraculously change him into some sort of gentleman. PLEASE. Do you think that is going to happen? It's really hard to change a person. And if you want to change another person, it means that you aren't happy with what they currently are. If your friends ARE attracted to these nice guys... well, I don't know what to say. Maybe just wait and they'll come?

Final statement: These guys that your friend seemingly want to have? Well, they're out there. Argue it all you want. But they ARE out there. Don't say that "They are out there but they already have boyfriends", or some clever, gay quip. I've heard it way too many times, and I'm sick of it. There really are gentleman (yes, they are straight!) who pick out the good qualities about you, who are generous, caring and understanding... you know, kind of like the fairy tales, I guess? The thing that is sad is that these 'fairy tale guys' are the ones who never get the woman in the end.

Hope that helped.

[BBC1]

Squirrley,

You wonder why some (or most men you date) are kind of egoistic?

"...Relationships are a two way street-why does it feel like its always going one way for some people? I dont get it..."

I guess there is somehting with your pattern of choosing men. You chose such men that eventually the tend to forget things and go just one way.
So who do you choose? Let's consider one probable scenario for some women.
I chose men who are stable financially, tall, handsome, who have great sense of humor. Seems ok so far, is not it?
But many do not pay attention to other men's features besides those ones.
How about loyalty? if he is that handsom, tall and well off - is he gonna be loyal?
he can choose women and it is hard to keep him... Many man who feel great in dating department just want to date and have sex without commitment. Those who lack money\height\looks tend to be more loyal and appreciate women more.

Another possible scenario: some women tend to compare men with theri dads.
If a guy is not like her father.. well, next, next...if he's it wont gurantee anything.

Anyway, bottom line is: ask yourself: what kind of guys you choose? why you choose them? what features you like about them? This may lead you to the answer why they become what they became.

[squirrley]

Ya know you have me in tears right now...cause I KNOW theyre are a great men out there-and we know this-we're just wondering where they are? Guess sitting at home and doing the same thing we are..."where are you?"

I know and feel EXACTLY what you are saying Prodigal...I do. And I thank you for your thoughtfulness in your response. Truly I do. There are times when it does seem hopeless. And Im NOT a pessimestic person this is what drives me crazy.

I have met someone whose wonderful...have no idea where things are gonna go and my friends are envious of what I have going on with him...but the fact remains there are so many of my friends that are lost...and I dont know what to do-and at times I feel like my situation is to good to be true and it does scare me. But Im taking the risk-Ive said it before-if Ive never wanted to take one before-I do now.

I wondered if it doesnt have anything to do with demographics as well...yes Im in a retirement area that doesnt offer much in the way of meeting new people and so do some of my other friends. I have the opportunity to move to AZ which is a happening area for people my age-but I dont have the NEED for someone and wouldnt move half way across the country for something I dont need. I want a relationship like everyone else-to have and be with someone who will compliment me(not in the way of telln me im pretty) you know what i mean. I believe there is someone for everyone...its just finding that initial connection and making the effort.

I do see people giving up too early...and or not trying to make a go of something once theyve got it. Its so easy to say "**** it" nowadays...it really is...and I dont want to be that person. I adore my friends to the extreme and hurt for them and want nothing but the best the very best for them because they deserve it. Hell I do too-

"good things come to those who wait..."

[squirrley]

BBC1-I started this thread in a generalization of my friends and our round table discussions. Im not finding any problems with myself here...I can recognize my own situations..but I thank you for your response.

I havent dated anyone in 5 years by choice. And the few dates I did have were blind dates-OMG what a joke. I do fine on my own. I was just trying to vent and find some help or find something positiveness for us...

[BBC1]

Squirrley,

You are saying:

"...Is it because men are afraid? .... How do I turn this one around?
...I feel so down and out that I cant help them and I cant figure it out myself."

....I havent dated anyone in 5 years by choice. And the few dates I did have were blind dates-OMG what a joke."

Yes, I think men are afraid to ask women out.

Though...if you havent dated in 5 years....hmmm you either have too
high standards for men (good of course but keep in mind you may not find the man who meet those standards) or you behave in the way they dont ask you out. Do you let men to ask you out? Are you social enough? Go to parties? Church? Any kind of events? Online dating? Anything will improve your chances to meet Him. That can turn it around. (if you wont date anyone in another 5 years and belive he'll find you... well it definitely wont improve the chances at all).

I know, it is so far from somthing positive you may seek. Blind dates are definitely better than no dates though I think it is good to look realistically
at the world (and at the men). I agree with George Bernard Shaw:
"The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

Be realistic, at least let men to see you and talk to you: I am surprised you choose not to date for 5 years, if you chose not to, how can anyone ask you out??!

[squirrley]

Because I didnt want to get involved with anyone...it was by choice. The blind dates were my friends ideas-NOT MINE. I chose to stay single...thats not a bad thing. I did do the social thing but there was NO intention of wanting a relationship. I didnt want anyone to ask me out. I liked being by myself...not dealing with the bs. I was happy being single. Things have changed for me. Someone has come along that has made it worth my wild to get involved again...Ive had plenty of men ask me out in the last year by the way, but I chose to say no. Until the last several months.

Once again-this thread started because I dont know how to help my friends in seeing what they want-all I know is what I did I did for myself and for no one else. Everyone is different and yet were the same. Because of my lack of experience in dating Im not able to give them the advice I want to...

[BBC1]

Because I didnt want to get involved with anyone...it was by choice. The blind dates were my friends ideas-NOT MINE. I chose to stay single...thats not a bad thing. I did do the social thing but there was NO intention of wanting a relationship. I didnt want anyone to ask me out. I liked being by myself...not dealing with the bs. I was happy being single. Things have changed for me. Someone has come along that has made it worth my wild to get involved again...Ive had plenty of men ask me out in the last year by the way, but I chose to say no. Until the last several months.

Once again-this thread started because I dont know how to help my friends in seeing what they want-all I know is what I did I did for myself and for no one else. Everyone is different and yet were the same. Because of my lack of experience in dating Im not able to give them the advice I want to...

Squirrley,

I understand respect your choice. Sorry I misunderstand your initial message\question.
Help me figure that out: was it somehting like: why some women attract
no quality guys and dating sucks?

[squirrley]

well its like this-my friends are similar to me in my way of thinking-in what theyre looking for in man and theyre own self confidence-but cant find that person...leave it demographics? who knows! Yea dating sucks...one time dates and these guys are just absalute losers...mostly set up by friends. Some have tried the internet dating thing-I havent couldnt see myself doing that-but I understand why now. Anyway its just a dilemma for me not knowing why or how these things are happening.

[Breezy18]

He has a right to yell at her sometimes, if she did something wrong,

I totally disagree with this statement. No one has the RIGHT to yell at anyone or make them feel less of a person. We are all human beings capable of compassion and as such, should be treated with dignity and respect. Always.

For the first time Squirrley is at a loss of words.

Judging from this post, I highly doubt that. lol
I understand EXACTLY what you are saying here, girlie. I think the phrase you are looking for is, "taking things or people for granted". It happens all the time. Once the initial infatuation is over, complacency moves in and makes itself comfortable. It's difficult to keep the spark alive for some. And almost always, one is more in love than the other. It never fails. But in talking to some of my guy friends, they have the same trouble we females do. It's horrible, I know, and I too, am at a loss to explain it. I can say, "well not ALL women are like that", but it's the same story we hear from the men. Not ALL men are like that. So what do we do? Keep pressing on, keep enjoying life, keep on being the loving individuals we are and eventually someone will come into our lives that will make time stand still. Someone that will make all others pale in comparison. And we will know, at the very instant they speak our name, that they will be the one worth the wait.

[BBC1]

well its like this-my friends are similar to me in my way of thinking-in what theyre looking for in man and theyre own self confidence-but cant find that person...leave it demographics? who knows! Yea dating sucks...one time dates and these guys are just absalute losers...mostly set up by friends. Some have tried the internet dating thing-I havent couldnt see myself doing that-but I understand why now. Anyway its just a dilemma for me not knowing why or how these things are happening.

Squirrley,

I see two possibilities: you have really high standards and dont want to lower them. Though men in your age group anyway want somebody who's like 10-20 years younger.
There are opposite trends: a man with his age kinda gaining marital qualities: better job, more serious, more experience. Women to the contrary not gaining at all...guys always want hot bodies...
How to overcoming the contradiction - I guess to compromise is a good thing.
Are you willing to compromise?

I'd not leave it to demographics, for Florida 51% of people are not married.
Age group do not look bad:
[url]http://www.aoa.gov/prof/Statistics/Census2000/stateprofiles[/url]
/single_yr-age-bystate.asp
and besides Florida is the third state in terms of population, means
around 7 million of people are not married. I guess half of them are male.
Only CA and NY have more!

Anyway, online dating can definitely expose you to some different
and quality people. Did you try it or think "it's for losers"?
I bet it is more productive and healthy than just discuss how dating sucks.
Of course there are less quality people than others. ...So what?

[Innova]

Figure this enigma out. I'm the kinda guy that most women say they wish they had/want, but I'm never with anyone.

*time!*

*although I've gotten the looks of a few cuties as of late*