Dimension of the Mind

[IndiReloaded]

Nono, the mice are uber-intellects from another dimension. Earth is their billion-year old incubating experiment. They were just about to get their result (the ultimate answer to the meaning of life) but then were really pissed off when the Vorgons destroyed earth to make way for a space superhighway. LOL.

Maybe this was from 'Life, the Universe & Everything'. Someone can look it up on wiki, I suppose.

I hope I'm right (about Tiay's reference) else I'm going to feel pretty silly explaining all this...

[DoesntMatter]

We humans seem to like to think that we're so f*cking special, and we need souls or spirits of consciousnesses or whatever else connected to us floating around on some other universe or plane or world or ethereal space to explain how we've come to be so very special.

I think people are special.

[boobaa]

Because it lacks a brain.

I thought you were a bit smarter than that.

Oh, and people are special, special like everyhting else in this world.

Oh, and I also love "Hitchhikers guide to galaxy".

[vashti]

::laughing::

Are you trying to say a rock is capable of thinking, booba?

[Tiay]

Hey, I'll share that cookie with you Tiay !

now that's what i'm talkin' 'bout

looks like we'll need more than one anyways, for all H2G2 fans!

No, Tiay, you're wrong. I believe that all living things (with a brain) are conscious, and "special".

have you looked at the definition of the word special? Special is different from the norm. In the context of things on earth, there's quite a lot of them with a brain. And yes sure life is precious and amazing.. but, it doesn't need more than evolution to explain it.

Furthermore, if I did not understand how the physical part of it works, wouldn't I have asked a question related to that instead?

because you think that you understand the physical part, but you don't really. You find it more comforting and to believe that there must be something else going on. Admittedly, I don't understand the physical fully either. But I am content to say I don't know some things- I don't need to fill in the gaps.

You seem to be unable to step outside things as you understand them. That is a level of ignorance. You posted once, that I jump to conclusions. Who is jumping to conclusions in this case?

that's 'cos you did jump to conclusions All I am doing is giving scientific theory the benefit of the doubt. That's not a wobbly conclusion. That's an incredibly well grounded, much researched one. It's not a "jump" to conclude that, say, the law of gravity keeps things on the ground, rather than the noodly appendages of the spaghetti monster. In the same way, it is not a "jump" to conclude that the brain generates our consciousness, rather than it being linked to some other universe/space/etc.

In fact, believing that, say, our brains are merely a vessel for our consciousness which exists in some other place, with no actual proof of that, now that'd be jumping to a conclusion.

And again, I have not made this thread to ARGUE about beliefs. So if you're close-minded, I am sorry, but this topic is not fit for you, because you can't be close-minded and actually have a discussion about such things.

alright, bad word choice, sorry. By argue I meant debate/discuss. lol, so, you're deeming me not open-minded enough for your thread. Okay. So you're going to cherry-pick who you want to take part in the discussion about how consciousness is separate from the physical brain. And you're going to exclude people from the debate who aren't "open-minded" enough to believe in that.
yeah. have fun with that then.

[boobaa]

::laughing::

Are you trying to say a rock is capable of thinking, booba?

Now from where exactly did you come to that conclusion? And I know laughing is the best and most commonly used type of self defence. Accusation comes next.

The question raised before wasn't about having a brain, but why some molecules create conciousness. What exactly is conciousness, ok ok chemicals etc, but what separates it from everything else, what is self awareness and so called abilty to think? If you get what I mean. Where does the border go? Can chemical reaction between two substances in a glass be regarded as thought or at least the very basis of it?

[Junket]

'Wing is just goin' through the typical coming of age abstract thinking phase.

He'll get over it.

If not.

He'll commit suicide.

[boobaa]

How old is he?

But yes, probably the best way to know if conciousness exists outside physical body and after death is to kill yourself. Life is pointless after all, so why not?

[anachronistic]

'Wing is just goin' through the typical coming of age abstract thinking phase.

He'll get over it.

If not.

He'll commit suicide.

Something like that... doubt I will kill myself, I am more rational.

Tiay, it appears as though you're just eager to argue. I find it somewhat ironic that you contradict yourself, again. I particularly find it irritating that you are putting words in my mouth and assuming my knowledge and stand on things. It is logical to think that this conversation could be enjoyed by someone with an open mind. Someone like you is just going to tell me (in a nutshell) that I am stupid, and that I should just accept things the way science has theorized, and blah blah blah. I really do not need people closemindedly advocating such things in this thread. If you are going to post something in this thread, please take into consideration the atmosphere I have created for this thread; I am not 'cherry-picking'.

[boobaa]

"No, Tiay, you're wrong. I believe that all living things (with a brain) are conscious, and "special". I already said that, so why are you assuming, still?"

Ugh...
Actually you are both quite similar minded... someones belief in something doesn't make other peoples beliefs wrong...

Oh, and some people, like me, can be controversal because we like to switch sides on the name of being open minded.

[IndiReloaded]

I still think we are all just characters in a video game. Put another quarter in, have another go...

[Only-virgins]

Now from where exactly did you come to that conclusion? And I know laughing is the best and most commonly used type of self defence. Accusation comes next.

The question raised before wasn't about having a brain, but why some molecules create consciousness. What exactly is consciousness, ok ok chemicals etc, but what separates it from everything else, what is self awareness and so called ability to think? If you get what I mean. Where does the border go? Can chemical reaction between two substances in a glass be regarded as thought or at least the very basis of it?

First of all, the science behind what you mentioned is already completely wrong. Our brain is a large nerve. If you can't comprehend how the brain works than get out of the thread and stop spreading nonsense. You don't understand how the chemical reactions work in the brain and your "chemicals in a glass" analogy makes no sense at all if you do, there is no nerve endings and receptors to receive information from these chemicals. I am sure that since you commented on all this though you know exactly what dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, epinephrine do and you know the complex workings of all the neurotransmitters in our brain. The ability to be self aware and think is created through the system that is the brain, the answer is not in one part....it is many parts working in unison to form consciousness. Not to mention that with out the memories growing that people have there is no consciousness. You throw in memories, emotions, and the five senses....and BAM... you get a being after a while that has created his own identity and now can say " I am because I say I am". Essentially your conscious awareness is your identity built over time.

someones belief in something doesn't make other peoples beliefs wrong...

True, as long as both are beliefs. unfortunately for you I am stating facts and not beliefs.

But yes, probably the best way to know if conciousness exists outside physical body and after death is to kill yourself. Life is pointless after all, so why not?

you first. Why would consciousness exist in the after life with no brain to function it? When you sleep your brain shuts off parts of the conscious mind. How does it feel when you sleep and not dream? You are aware of nothing and have no sense of time and space....no conscious mind..it is at idle...death is that but permanent...not really hard to imagine either if you think about it.

I thought you were a bit smarter than that.

Actually it was a pretty good and straight forward answer. You make no sense by calling her less smart. If anything you have failed so far in justifying any intelligence yourself, you have proven very well that you don't KNOW how the brain works or anything about it.

[Only-virgins]

Something like that... doubt I will kill myself, I am more rational.

Tiay, it appears as though you're just eager to argue. I find it somewhat ironic that you contradict yourself, again. I particularly find it irritating that you are putting words in my mouth and assuming my knowledge and stand on things. It is logical to think that this conversation could be enjoyed by someone with an open mind. Someone like you is just going to tell me (in a nutshell) that I am stupid, and that I should just accept things the way science has theorized, and blah blah blah. I really do not need people closemindedly advocating such things in this thread. If you are going to post something in this thread, please take into consideration the atmosphere I have created for this thread; I am not 'cherry-picking'.

It is cool. I like the thread. I don't want it to be some huge argument either. Just when people claim that they are open minded like boobaa but IGNORE all the facts I present them with.. it gets a bit frustrating you know? I think it is important and a good idea that you think about this yourself lilwing, and figure it out on your own. By the way, if I can still find it....I will tell you the title of this book I read. It wasn't about the brain but rather justifying how the brain causes a self aware identity. It was interesting because it dove into the ideas why we are so different and yet the same in some things. Essentially I think consciousness is not the debate here but our identity is...there is a thin line between the two. As you grow you gain a form of identity and your sense of BEING ALIVE and viewing the world changes and develops. This is why parenting is so important so kids don't get a distorted unrealistic view of the world.

[DoesntMatter]

pissant




____________

[IndiReloaded]

...it is many parts working in unison to form consciousness. Not to mention that with out the memories growing that people have there is no consciousness. You throw in memories, emotions, and the five senses....and BAM... you get a being after a while that has created his own identity and now can say " I am because I can say I am".

I wonder if the internet is self-aware yet. Not sure how we could check tho... guess I'll have to wait until my computer starts communicating back w/me while I'm online.

Hey... wait a minnit....