Inner Game

[TheSphinx]

Anyways, I don't understand what fear you are talking about when you say let go of the fear and you can share a deeper feeling with a girl. Also what kind of past is holding me back. Didn't understand that at all.

For clarification-The fear was in reference to the second quote, specifically that anxiety, nervousness, and conversational skills must be ironed out before you have feelings for a woman again. I'm not saying it's wrong to want this, only that you might miss out on your way there.

The past event was in reference to the first quote I posted, more specifically hating yourself for it sometimes.

Isn't that what he kind of is saying? To make yourself believe that you have something to offer?

Hopefully it's so that you can realize that you have had something to offer all along.

~Sphinx

[GrkScorp]

Hopefully it's so that you can realize that you have had something to offer all along.

Exactly Sphinx!

I live in NYC, and it's not just packed with good-looking women.. It has great-looking guys too..

Here's how to look at guys.. Guys are just ugly chicks.. it's that simple.. Yes, they're going to come over, and try to pick up women in your group.. but like I told you.. there are ways to counter this, and there are traps to set for them to fall into..

I'm working a group.. the whole group is having a great time.. this new guy comes in trying to take someone from the group or make himself part of the group..

- Awkward-Test (70% success rate): "Hey! Do we know you?".. most of the time they just move along.. and all you have to do is quickly stack onto something fun like a game or trick that involves the whole group.. Guys are toast..

- Out-Alpha (Indirect): Tool him by telling him you want to show him something.. asking him to jump through hoops "sit down, hold this, open your hands, do this, do that.." before you know it, he's your b*tch, you have his compliance, and best part of all.. he's adding nothing to the interaction.. you're making him look like a beta, while you're making yourself look fun and more alpha.. "tooling him".. then you lock him out of the interaction after you're done, and watch him go puppy-dog-mode..

- Out-Alpha (Direct): Cut into his conversational threads.. "hey, don't mean to cut you off... one second, before I forget..".. Be louder than him, and don't be affraid to turn your back to him and isolate him from the group.. they almost always go puppy-dog-mode.. A couple have grown pissed-off and started to make threats and were ready to fight.. which leads me to..

- Make him Qualify himself: Always unattractive.. he's showing his true aggressive/rage colors, making himself look like an idiot as you're keeping your cool.. "Hey dude, sorry, but I don't go that way.. less touchy-feely.. haha..".. now he's too busy qualifying himself, showing his insecurity in his sexuality.. If he gets physical.. you have people around you.. (But learn Jujistu or Aikijujutsu; and either joint-lock him or throw him on the floor and hold him there while the bouncers come.. again, you've out-alpha-ed him).. you can get up and say to the girls "wow, I guess he really liked you guys.. you know.. 8,000 years ago, when people still lived in caves, this would be a huge turn-on.. this is what primitive humans used to do.. I guess what they say about some guys is true.. they never grow up.."

In any case.. you are ALWAYS the source of fun and good-feelings.. ALWAYS.. the leader in your group.. where other guys follow you, girls want you, and people want to be around you.. This is actually easy.. all you need to have this is:

1. Strong sense of Identity & Inner Game
2. Solid State of Mind
3. Value, fun, and good-feelings to add to the interaction

Examples:

- Tony: He preforms at private parties and exclusive establishments for a living.. Very talented musician, Amazing voice, also plays the guitar (accustic/electric) and the piano.. go with him to a kareoke bar, and you'll get bored of pulling women..

- Ben: Speaks 8 languages, british accent, and is an art history & english major.. he will tell you everything about any artist, work, and period.. he can also recite works of litterature and poetry like it's in front of him.. boring you say? Watch girls melt like putty

- George: Really warm & friendly guy who's always happy.. his value? humor.. an unlimited supply of it.. and he knows people who know people who know people who know people..

Everyone is different, unique, and has their own value to add.. All you're going to do.. (the sooner we finish this) is become perfectly aware and in control of the value you have to offer..

[okapa]

I know this is another thread but hey. I know I make mistakes in the most subtle ways when talking to individuals and I'm hooked on the some of the ideas Grkscorp has mentioned. This thread is devoted thus to improving once social interaction and I with that reasoning placed it in the "development" section of the LF forum.

Maybe we can learn how to avoid some things such as
1.) Being nervous
2.) Sounding needy
3.) wrong body gestures
4.) improper eye contact


Whatever it is I have been doing wrong I want to know. Girls approach me and than they run. How can I be something I am not, that doesn't make to much sense. If the conversation is going no where what do I do? what do I say? and how do I say it?

Just maybe this thread will be helpful to all the people making threads along the lines of "I like a girl but how do I approach her, what do I do, and what and how do I say it?"

Well, since this thread is to talk about our experiences, I recently asked Grk for some books on the subject. Not because I feel I need them, but because I've always been fascinated by human interaction and I wanted to find patterns.

I gotta tell you they're great, they awake your confidence if you know what I mean. I'm not a shy guy but I didn't act totally as I should.

I went out yesterday, having read one and half books. It was a party, I didn't know almost anyone, I just presented myself to everyone. By the end of the night, two girls tried to kiss me, five gave me their phone numbers - I only asked for one - and I was invited for another party.

My advice: try to look special. For example, when you go into bars, they give you a card to fill with drinks and you pay when you get out... at least over here lol. So, I managed to get two cards - see where I'm going? I use one for drinks then pay for the other one : D

That gave me a "**** the system charming aura" which I used to push other guys and I ended dancing in the middle of about 10 girls.

Just to prove it works, I'm 15. I still have a lot to improve though, I suck at the comfort fase right now, I didn't have a clue how to push a girl to a quiet place and talk to them...

I was interested in one, she was interested in me... I mean she had her eyes glued to me, she touched me everytime she could, she even mirrorred me... Or is it confindence getting to my head lol? Whatever, she was a bit shy in conversation so we just danced and I asked for her number before she left.

What should I have done? I guess I'm going to resume my reading now...

EDIT:

Ok, now I got some questions:
1. What do I do if I want to make an unconfident person attracted and comfortable with me?
2. I don't know if it's the same where you live, but over here the only way girls know how to interact with a guy seems to be over text messages. Should I go along? Any tips?

[GrkScorp]

By the end of the night, two girls tried to kiss me, five gave me their phone numbers - I only asked for one - and I was invited for another party... I suck at the comfort fase right now, I didn't have a clue how to push a girl to a quiet place and talk to them...

I was interested in one, she was interested in me... I mean she had her eyes glued to me, she touched me everytime she could, she even mirrorred me... Or is it confindence getting to my head lol? Whatever, she was a bit shy in conversation so we just danced and I asked for her number before she left.

What should I have done? I guess I'm going to resume my reading now...

EDIT:

Ok, now I got some questions:
1. What do I do if I want to make an unconfident person attracted and comfortable with me?
2. I don't know if it's the same where you live, but over here the only way girls know how to interact with a guy seems to be over text messages. Should I go along? Any tips?

I'm proud of you.. You did great

Getting stuck in comfort is where a lot of guys go wrong..

Solution:

- Always kino, from the start!
- Nothing is ever a big deal, there's no awkward moment when touching
- Let it build up slow (brushing, touching hands, arms).. and then go deeper (ahem! with the kino.. breathing down her neck, wisper into her ear, pull on her hair, let her legs graze you, sit her on your lap, gently touch her face/cheeks/nose/chin with your palms/finger when she does something silly/cute, hands and arms around her waist/hips, kiss her forehead/cheeks, playfully bite her nose/chin, etc)..
- Psychologically tear down road-blocks.. "stories & patters".. kino is comfort building and creates familiarity with your touch.. that's why you should always kino.. but when you touch people around you in general.. (your touch is no longer a big deal).. but with shy women, you'll need to set her at ease with this.. It's not comming to me now, but go through my posts, I got a shy girl poster on here to give a handjob to her bf.. if text alone can do it.. content + delivery can definitely do it.. Point is, talk about stories with friends you know or even you.. talk about women doing/going to the next phase you want to be (kissing, making out, sex) and make it sound perfectly normal and not like a big deal.. make sure you don't judge.. you have to make her realize that it's normal.. that you won't judge.. and that nobody will find out.. because you use "discretion"
- Unethical (but effective): give her situations where she can "qualify" herself to you.. Don't always make her feel like she's shined in a positive light.. do this on-off.. as you do this.. she'll rationalize that you're interested in her and attracted to her because of the qualities she's worked so hard to show you.. after hours/effort of qualifying herself for you.. she'll begin to feel that she's winning you over.. But all you're doing is teasing her.. you're never pushing for sex.. in fact you don't even push for kino after a certain point.. you just breath down her neck.. look her in the eyes, smile, and pull away.. it's cruel, frustrating.. but in short, you're turning her on and pulling away.. getting her aroused and pulling away.. she'll feel safe in that you're not pushing for sex.. she'll feel comfortable because nobody will find out (with you) and you don't judge her.. so with all road-blocks removed and her turned on.. all she needs is a place.. she'll make up a reason for what she's about to do on the way there..
- Friends! If she's shy, she won't do anything around her friends with you.. the fact that she's touching is HUGE.. she must really like you to open up like this in front of her friends.. but alone-time is simple.. it's called a "date".. just you and her.. no friends or anyone else holding her back from what she wants to do..

Texting:

- That's unacceptable.. Don't give in to this form of talking..
- Tell her that you can't stand texting, it's childish, and you don't feel like you're really talking to the other person.. you can't understand people who like to text.. you hope she's not one of those people (she'll say no.. she's not one of those people.. if she says yes.. then tell her that's a shame, because you liked talking to her.. make sure she has your number or that she'll see you again.. that way she'll stop game-playing, and you won't get sucked into her frame)
- Tell her that you like to talk on the phone, to at least feel like your talking to the other person on the other end.. that you want to hear her voice on the other end.. there's something so amazing about people's voices (I would stack onto patters/realities here)

Note: It wasn't confidence getting to your head.. at 15, girls are stuck at a strange rut.. they look around and all they see are "boys" who claim to have pythons in their pants and be players.. then they have "boys" who are nice/sweet/polite/gentle/quiet/reserved/boring.. This is the phase where girls start to feel superior to boys.. they feel more mature, and they naturally want a guy who is more mature, and will make them feel more mature "hence older men".. But then there's YOU.. you're not quite like the "boys" they're used to.. but you're around the same age and not quite "older" to make them feel that awkward pressure of being with an older guy at age 15-16.. They can't put their finger on it, but they know you're something special.. and they also see that other girls want/like you.. and like the catty creatures they are.. they all jump on you to claim you all for themselves..

Keep reading on.. keep growing.. keep learning.. but most importantly.. keep having fun

Best,

GrkScorp

[IndiReloaded]

Some people may argue the point, OV, but I feel you are a genuinely awesome fellow.

Whether through Grk's advice or otherwise, I think once you are able to get past this and actually accept yourself as an awesome guy, you won't have much trouble meeting women.

I say this because women are especially good at picking up on someone else's energy or state of mind ("reading" people) and they most likely detect it in you if you are carrying this thought process around.



It's excellent that you are deciding on what you want to take care of now for the future, but please don't lose sight of the fact that you will be dealing with another person.

You can sling pickup lines or "openers" as you please and even have whole conversations with random women that you meet to practice your social skills.

Hell, you might even find that a few of these women want you to come to their place after meeting you, solely to practice a more physical skill set on you.

But in my opinion, you have to reach a point that you can allow yourself to let go of the fear, embrace strong feelings for a woman and experience her on a deeper level.

I encourage you not to hold yourself back because of the past or out of fear of having some part of you rejected.

Bare in mind that a "now girl" could very well be that future one you are hoping to find. And even if things don't work out with a girl you meet now, OV, would you rather fill the space between "now" and "time I meet my ideal partner" with half-assed relationships?

I guarantee to you that the confidence you will gain from sharing yourself wholly with another and satisfying her, even with things about yourself that you may find boring or nerdy, will far outweigh the confidence that comes from a wallet full of phone numbers.

~Sphinx

^This is the most real advice I have seen thus far on this topic.

OV, I completely agree w/Sphinx & you should think about this. Games are for children who are trying to find their way (which has limited value while trying to 'figure things'), but eventually should be replaced by authenticity. Great post.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm working a group.. the whole group is having a great time.. this new guy comes in trying to take someone from the group or make himself part of the group..

- Awkward-Test (70% success rate): "Hey! Do we know you?".. most of the time they just move along.. and all you have to do is quickly stack onto something fun like a game or trick that involves the whole group.. Guys are toast..

- Out-Alpha (Indirect): Tool him by telling him you want to show him something.. asking him to jump through hoops "sit down, hold this, open your hands, do this, do that.." before you know it, he's your b*tch, you have his compliance, and best part of all.. he's adding nothing to the interaction.. you're making him look like a beta, while you're making yourself look fun and more alpha.. "tooling him".. then you lock him out of the interaction after you're done, and watch him go puppy-dog-mode..

- Out-Alpha (Direct): Cut into his conversational threads.. "hey, don't mean to cut you off... one second, before I forget..".. Be louder than him, and don't be affraid to turn your back to him and isolate him from the group.. they almost always go puppy-dog-mode.. A couple have grown pissed-off and started to make threats and were ready to fight.. which leads me to..

- Make him Qualify himself: Always unattractive.. he's showing his true aggressive/rage colors, making himself look like an idiot as you're keeping your cool.. "Hey dude, sorry, but I don't go that way.. less touchy-feely.. haha..".. now he's too busy qualifying himself, showing his insecurity in his sexuality.. If he gets physical.. you have people around you.. (But learn Jujistu or Aikijujutsu; and either joint-lock him or throw him on the floor and hold him there while the bouncers come.. again, you've out-alpha-ed him).. you can get up and say to the girls "wow, I guess he really liked you guys.. you know.. 8,000 years ago, when people still lived in caves, this would be a huge turn-on.. this is what primitive humans used to do.. I guess what they say about some guys is true.. they never grow up.."

In any case.. you are ALWAYS the source of fun and good-feelings.. ALWAYS.. the leader in your group.. where other guys follow you, girls want you, and people want to be around you.. This is actually easy.. all you need to have this is:

1. Strong sense of Identity & Inner Game
2. Solid State of Mind
3. Value, fun, and good-feelings to add to the interaction

GS, this makes you sound like a total asshole & incredibly insecure. You treat a total stranger like shit & think this makes you attractive to women? I'm really sorry to say this, but I think there are some men that need to know that there are a lot of women who would find this behaviour really appalling. A classy woman would never tolerate this type of behaviour in a male.

The more I read of these techniques you suggest to young men, the more I think its more for those trying to build up a damaged ego (at the expense of others). If this is really how young men today think they need to act in order to 'get women', I think this is a very sad state of affairs.

I know I sound old-fashioned, but where have the gentlemen, the REAL gentlemen (not the fakers using it as technique) gone?

[vashti]

I told you, OV.

[misombra]

First of all, not the case that she was "amused".. that implies that she rationalized OV's actions to mean he likes her (had to go? didn't dig deeper and want to talk? took his time walking away? not exactly OV looking to be around her).. I can't believe you would use such a counterproductive psychological tactic in favor of this girl and to the disfavor of OV.. (LF Bros be4 hoes)

i would never take any girls side against ov. i'm always on his side.

ov seriously, take gskorps advice with a grain of salt.

like bob marley says, you can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time. i'm just saying if it's a smart girl you're after, she's going to recognize the game, and she's not likely to appreciate it.

[Kiechi]

"You're more beautiful today than you were the day I met you. You had a really big pimple that day."

[Only-virgins]

but where have the gentlemen, the REAL gentlemen (not the fakers using it as technique) gone?

Women destroyed them by pushing them away. Women are to blame if you think about it. Why act like a gentlemen and a good person if I get less women that way? I have been a gentlemen all my life and got no reactions what so ever....if it doesn't work why bother? As we scientists say...it is all about the results. No offense but can you tell me WHAT TO DO instead of what NOT TO DO. I am here simply because what I am doing is not working and GRSCORP is the only person who seems to have advice. Not to mention that in the past week, his advice is working...and yes....maybe at the expensive of her ego or what not...but why should I care anymore? I believe EVERYTHING happens for a reason and I am tired of being that guy who either gets rejected with out even getting a chance and pushing it off in my head with something along the lines of "Bad luck" or "Maybe next time". Not true, there is a reason for why everything happens and he seems to have the best answers for why...or answers at all for that matter.

It is not like he is brain washing me. I can think on my own. I do what I always do. If someone makes a claim and puts something in front like he did...I do what I always do...I test it. Though I think we all know that being a nice gentlemen is epic failure in relationships these days.

you can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

I settle for some people cause I am getting none being me.

[vashti]

Because the ones worth keeping won't fall for that crap.

[Only-virgins]

Because the ones worth keeping won't fall for that crap.

Who said anything about keeping anything? and how do you know? Oh and if they don't fall for that crap can you tell me what crap they do fall for? Seems like the classy girls switch from liking the big egos in man to big wallets. Equally as pathetic. One is easier to control by men though. I know what girls really want, they want that spark and chemistry...so do I ..but I haven't had it happen in over 10 years...I can't count on it anymore and would like just a bit of fun...thats all I am asking for.

[TheSphinx]

Why act like a gentlemen and a good person if I get less women that way?

Your reasons are your own, OV, but I choose the above because that's how I want to live, not because it gets me more women.

~Sphinx

[GrkScorp]

Oh gosh.. women crack me up.. when they feel they have no grounds on a topic.. they start to come in strong via getting nasty, name-calling, and trying to attack the ego.. Indi.. seriously.. you're better than that.. and besides.. like i've said early in this thread.. it's an "Inner game" thread.. not a "tactics" thread..

OV, this thread is to make you realize certain things about yourself.. I want to help take you on an inner journey to realize the value inside of you.. and so far.. you've showed ZERO willingness to take the journey.. and like I told you.. I can't take it for you.. it's a step YOU have to take..

I'm also not going to degrade or insult anyone's advice.. But I would like you ladies to realize that you're looking at the flip-side of the coin here.. yes, women play games.. and when guys play games, all of a sudden they turn into moral/ethical creatures with manners which talk about what is proper.. All of a sudden they want a "real" gentleman who doesn't play games.. or so they claim.. before they run off to someone who does.. That's one of the typical responses I get; the other is obviously the "oh, that would never work on me.. I want a "real" man, that doesn't play games, that I can control, that I can mold like clay.."

If there would be a thread about how girls/women should get guys, what games they should play.. It would obviously follow that some guys would flood it with "oh g-d, these games are so annoying.. a "real" woman/lady doesn't need to do this.. blah blah".. Then you would get some guys saying "I would never fall for that".. and some other guys calling these women "b*tches & insecure".. all because it bothers them inside to watch other girls get armed with how to mentally terrorize guys.. fair enough.. that's the battle of the sexes.. but don't think for a second that i'll feel any reservations to call anyone on their moral-ethical-bullsh*t..

In a perfect world, nobody would play games, everyone would be a 10, and so on and so forth.. but we don't live in such a world.. there are people who are bored.. people who are immature.. notties in a group.. orbiters in a group.. jerk guys who come and try and take your group you've been working hard on.. and a bunch of whako/sicko people in that mix..

But like i've said very early in this thread.. let's NOT turn it into a "theory" thread.. PM for that.. let's keep it a place to develop your "inner game"..

Inner game is NOT about changing who you are.. it's NOT about being FAKE.. it's NOT about making you into something you're not.. but it IS about improvement.. it IS about discovering the value you already have.. it IS about realizing that value so clearly and being so fully aware of it that you can develop a strong sense of your personal identity.. and it IS about bringing out the best in you, locking it in as an internal reality, and being able to automatically and unconsciously present it to others..

OV.. i'm waiting for your answers to those Inner Game questions..

[GrkScorp]

Because the ones worth keeping won't fall for that crap.

Why not? Thought so.. shhh...

There's no difference between the ones worth keeping and the ones not worth keeping in terms of "falling" for this..

- Smarter? Even women not worth keeping are smart.. cleaver.. and that breeds very sneaky creatures..

That amounts to nothing more than a poor female attempt to find reason to convince you otherwise.. Other attempts?

- Don't be a loser
- Don't be mean
- It's not nice
- If she's a classy girl..
- If she's smart..
- If she's worth it..
- If you're a "real" man
- Only immature people play games
- Not everyone plays games (that's right, relationships only have 1 woman, the other person is usually a man)