Torn...in love...scared of being hurt.

[IndiReloaded]

He may crumble now, but he'll resent it later. And dealing with *that* will be worse than walking away from his shit now.

Lynae, its not as if walking away now means you can't find each other later. Goodbye isn't necessarily forever; you're no teenager who sees the world as black or white. If he must, let him go off & find himself. It may take a month, years, or maybe never. Just live your life meantime according to your needs, that's all we are saying.

[Lynae]

I know that if he crumbles now & he's not ready, he WILL resent it later. Which is exactly why I haven't pushed him into committing to me yet. I'm actually ok with him dating other women & just going out & doing the whole single thing as long as he keeps me a part of his life...and doesn't completely back away. I want him to understand how much I do love him and that I AM willing to wait, just not to be a doormat in the process. I don't know quite how to do that. And I want to do something that will ensure that I cross his mind all the time, even when he's with other women. I want him to compare them to me. Excuse me for being selfish, but I want him in the end!!

I did see him tonight, though only for about 3 minutes as he was on his way out the door to go play darts. (As he said...I think he was going to meet a woman but he didn't want to throw it in my face.) Things were fine. Maybe a little rushed, but fine nonetheless. Again, I'll let you know what happens after dinner tomorrow. I'm looking very forward to seeing how it plays out. I don't know exactly what I'm going to do or say. I honestly just want to do something that will totally *wow* him & make me stand out even more than I already do from all the other women in his life. He's a very domestic person, into cooking & staying home. I'm a hopeless romantic. I was thinking of taking him to walk along the boardwalk/beach at my favorite spot a few miles away. I've told him how much I love it there & he said we'd have to go there sometime. I'm thinking now is the time. Us...a good meal...a yummy dessert that I bring...then walking along the ocean under the stars. I know he's not doing stuff like that with the other women. They might go out to dinner then back to his place or they meet at a club or bar but they don't do anything special that I'm aware of. And I want to show him a side of me he hasn't seen yet. My romantic side...and also my goofy, silly side that he's only seen a little of but he says is one of the things he loves about me. Get me anywhere near the water and I'm so free and open...just like a little girl. I want him to see that part of me. Well, that and I'm going to dress "innocently sexy" as I like to call it. lol

Any other suggestions on what to do to make myself stand out a little more from the rest?? I'm all ears!!

[Charlie Boy II]

Here's a couple I can think off:

- Give blow jobs freely
- Keep yourself in shape
- Don't be demanding
- Don't take yourself too seriously
- Don't ever, ever start a sentence with "I'm the sort of person that..."

[Lynae]

ROTFLMAO

That wasn't exactly what I was talking about, but thanks for the pointers.

- I can handle the blow jobs.
- I do keep myself fit. I'm 5'2" and a size 3. Fit enough?
- I'm the furthest thing from demanding...I'm very laid back.
- I don't take myself too seriously. I'm a big goofball & I know it. In fact, I embrace it. It's one of the things I like about myself. I'm just a big kid at heart.
- The only time a sentence has ever come out of my mouth starting with "I'm the sort of person that" (or something vaguely resembling it) was when him & I were talking about how we both usually stay guarded with our emotions but have been unable to since we met. But it fit into the conversation, and he said it too. However that's not usually the type of thing that comes out of my mouth. I'm more straightforward than that.

That said, I really was just looking for pointers on how to make tomorrow night something that really sticks out in his head and sets me apart from the other girls. The blow job part I can handle. But what about something a little more meaningful? lol

[Charlie Boy II]

hahaha ok. Well, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is make sure you look really, hot and it sounds like you've got that covered. "Innocent sexy" is spot on! What a perfect look to go for!

If the guy is like me what will matter is not so much the details of the date but chemistry. If you overdo it with all sorts of trimmings, the guy'll just think he has you in the palm of his hand. I don't think males are taken in by gimmiks in the same way many females are. So I'd hold a bit back. The night as it you've got it planned sounds good to me.

[vashti]

I believe charlieboy is right. You cant create chemistry - you either have it, or you don't.

[Lynae]

Oh...we have chemistry. We have DAMN good chemistry. That was what literally drew us together on that first fateful night when it all began. The chemistry (both sexual and emotional) is what keeps him running from me out of fear of not being able to resist committing to me.

So...excuse me if I sound naive here, but I kind of am with the whole "dating" thing. (I was in a relationship off & on for 11 years--ever since I was 19, and I'm out of the loop.) But what type of things do guys like to talk about when things get a little more serious? I mean we've talked about past relationships, our interests, kids (we each have 3), shared embarasing stories, etc. But do men want to talk about their childhoods or their families or what? I really want to get to know more about him than I already do without sounding like I'm prying. I know family is very important to him but I want things to come up in a natural way. I just don't know if there are any "taboo" subjects at the moment.

Boy, I feel like a MESS with this guy! Which is really weird for me because I've never been so eager to make a big impression on any man before. I always made an impression without trying, but I was the one who shot them down because I didn't want a serious relationship. Now with the tables turned, knowing there IS a connection, I'm a wreck! HELP!!!! lol

[IndiReloaded]

I'm actually ok with him dating other women & just going out & doing the whole single thing as long as he keeps me a part of his life...and doesn't completely back away. I want him to understand how much I do love him and that I AM willing to wait, just not to be a doormat in the process.

I honestly just want to do something that will totally *wow* him & make me stand out even more than I already do from all the other women in his life.

No offense Lynae, but I don't see how you're *not* being a doormat based on this post.

You keep mentioning all the things you're doing for him. What is it exactly that he's doing for you, again?

Now, bending over backwards is a technique used by both men & women to 'sneak into' the lives of those they like (ask any guy who's agreed to 'just friends') BUT at some point, the relationship will need to be more balanced so that you *both* give & take. Right now, sounds like you're doing all the giving. I hope you're not having sex w/this guy. I also hope you have set yourself some kind of limit for how long you will let this go on for, else you *will* become a doormat. In fact, I think that would be the official definition.

I predict you'll do this for a while & then need to drop him an ultimatum. Its that saying about having your cake & eating it too. Hell if *he's* going to give that up unchallenged.

Good luck w/this.

[Lynae]

I really haven't done anything for him. I mean aside from spending time with him when I'm able by meeting up with him or going to his house. (I won't let him come to my house because I don't want my kids to meet ANY men I see until I know it's serious.) It's not like I clean his house or pick up his dry cleaning or anything. What has he done for me? Just little things...stopping in to see me at work because he knows it makes me smile, calling to wish me good morning & tell me to have a good day, little things like that.

And yes, I have slept with him. We've moved to <i>that</i> level. And it feels so different from other men I've been with. Believe me, I can distinguish between love and sex. I'm not ashamed to say I've had my share of flings and a couple one night stands. Sex is just that -- SEX. But with him it truly does feel different. There I go getting emotionally attached...something I normally guard myself from doing for exactly THIS reason.

But tonight is our first real, planned in advance "date" where we do something other than meet somewhere when I get out of work. Our schedules really clash and I'm busy all the time with the kids so I kinda feel like I get the short end of the stick compared to these other women he's seeing who are free to be there at his beckon call. (Not that I want to be like that...I just wish I was more flexible sometimes.)

I don't know...do you really think I'm being a doormat?? I do understand the whole "I'm not ready to settle down with one person" thing. I feel like I need to date other guys too so that I can see what else is out there. Or is that just me listening to society who says it's the "right" thing to do after a long relationship? I just don't want to be his rebound or vice versa.

Damn. Now I'm more confused than ever. I guess all I can do is take it one day at a time and have a backbone if I feel like I'm getting used. Sometimes it's easier said than done when feelings are involved and when I know damn well they're reciprocated. I don't like this whole "single" thing! Apparently I'm more of the settling down type than I thought. And here I always thought I was more of a rebellious wild child... lol

[IndiReloaded]

I don't know...do you really think I'm being a doormat?? I do understand the whole "I'm not ready to settle down with one person" thing. I feel like I need to date other guys too so that I can see what else is out there. Or is that just me listening to society who says it's the "right" thing to do after a long relationship? I just don't want to be his rebound or vice versa.

Damn. Now I'm more confused than ever. I guess all I can do is take it one day at a time and have a backbone if I feel like I'm getting used. Sometimes it's easier said than done when feelings are involved and when I know damn well they're reciprocated. I don't like this whole "single" thing! Apparently I'm more of the settling down type than I thought. And here I always thought I was more of a rebellious wild child... lol

I just want you to be aware of the possibility you may be used. It may not even be conscious on his part, but that doesn't change what is. That's why I suggest strong boundaries.

I wouldn't permit sex w/him if he is seeing other women. Not as a manipulation tool, just for purely practical reasons, esp since children are involved. I might continue to date & have fun w/him. But everyone has different standards on that issue, I'm not judging you.

You mentioned an on again, off again 11 year relationship. But no marriage or commitment, yes? That suggests to me that you may have issues setting boundaries & saying no to men. That's a shot in the dark, of course, but if that triggers a little gibbering monkey in a dark corner of your mind, you might want to pull it out & have a closer look. You may be repeating history.

FWIW

[Gigabitch]

I'm completely with Indi on this. It's not a pleasant thing to say, but you need to hear it: you are NOT the "end-up with" woman. You're a "transitional relationship". You could change this by changing the dynamic between you and him, but the way things are right now, you're just another woman he's dating (and sleeping with). I'm sure all the others feel that they have "special" moments with him, too.

I find it hard to believe that this is actually okay with you. I think you're just excusing it because you're taking what you can get. Don't do this, Lynae. You're gonna get burned.

[Lynae]

Indi: Yes...I made the mistake of staying in a BAD relationship for too many years. There was a lot of emotional abuse involved but I fell into the trap of "I'll stay for the kids" or "I'll stay until he changes." Yeah. Stupid. You can't change anyone. I'll never make that same mistake again. I guess that's why I'm so adamant about figuring out what to do in this situation.

Giga: You're right...if I'm not the "end up with" woman, I'm not ok with this. I'm not going through all of this with him to get my heart stomped on in the end. I just don't know quite how to change the dynamic of the relationship at the moment. I guess that brings us back to the whole ultimatum thing, huh? Ugh. I don't like this. I don't know how to say it without sounding like a total bitch. I want him to understand not only how I feel, but also that I know I'm worth more than that. I can't handle being one of many women if his feelings are true. It all comes down to this...he either needs to step up & face his feelings or run away. If his choice is to run away, that's my cue to walk. I just hope that's not the case.

He told me, "the last woman I had feelings like this for I ended up marrying." And that's what scared him because he says he's not ready. But I guess I'm going to have to tell him that things don't always happen according to the plan we have set out for ourselves. If he thinks he needs 6 months or a year or whatever of "having fun," and he falls for me (or anyone else) in the process, he owes it to himself to go with it. If he can't do that, neither can I. Because I can't continue this. As much as it would hurt not seeing him, I think it hurts more with the constant questions hanging over us.

[squirrley]

I agree with Indi and Giga too. Ive been in your shoes. You want to make this lasting impression on him or make yourself stand out from the other women he's dating, just be yourself. But you HAVE to have limitations and boundaries. Ultimatums are NOT a bad thing when youre in the position youre in. I thought I could handle him dating other women, but what the hell if he's sleeping with me, how many other women is he sleeping with? That didnt settle with me after a couple of months, and I laid it out.

He may be super special to you, but if he feels the same then things should swing to your favor. But you will never know if you dont lay it on the line with him. You have to tell him you would like to be exclusive. If you actually tell him Ok honey I'll wait for you while youre out having a great time with someone else, he's SURELY going to do it. You are giving him his cake and letting him eat it too.

If you believe in yourself and your self worth and your confidence, you shall prevail no matter what happens. If he chooses to walk, then you know he's not as committed to the relationship as you are.

SET YOUR BOUNDARIES!

[Masterofmind69]

You need to move on, for whatever reason you want this man because he is wrong for you. You been in a bad relationship before so unconsciously fall in love with the wrong man. People do it all the time.

If this guy wants you wait that's total nonsense. Time won't heal things, he needs to get therapy obviously. Honestly not many people know what true love is. It is far beyond most people's understanding. The I love you phrase doesn't mean much. It is what a person does and this guy doesn't do much for you. Who knows he could be sleeping around. Maybe he says that to a few women.
Move on before it gets harder and harder to do it. I am sure your kids can tell something out of the ordinary is happening you can't hide emotions from people you know. At least do it for their sake.

Good luck

[IndiReloaded]

Indi: Yes...I made the mistake of staying in a BAD relationship for too many years. There was a lot of emotional abuse involved but I fell into the trap of "I'll stay for the kids" or "I'll stay until he changes." Yeah. Stupid.

Ah, yes, there are a lot of members of that club around. Men & women both. Making therapists a hella lot of money.

He told me, "the last woman I had feelings like this for I ended up marrying." And that's what scared him because he says he's not ready.

Consider this fellow may have your number figured & that's a really effective line. Not encouraging you to be too cynical, but just keep it in mind. I mean, it *did* give you pause, didn't it?

Hoo boy, the more I read, I think you're gonna have your hands full w/this one, regardless. You don't happen to have a spare Psych degree kicking around, do you? You may need it.