New male member with relationship troubles.

[straight&56]

Hi all,

Guess all persons posting here have their own important reasons for searching out this forum or one similar.

My reason is that I'm deeply troubled by recent events regarding a platonic friend ( she described me quite recently as her only confidante ).
I am a much younger looking ( according to comments ) 56 year old, young at heart, straight male and married for 33 years with a 19 year old daughter. My marriage has its long term problems but is reasonably stable.
She is 33 years old, married for 14 years to her childhood sweetheart and with an 11 year old son, but in a marriage that has become unhappy.

I have known her for 4 - 5 years and for 2 -3 years we have been able to talk about just about anything. We have been confidantes. It was always platonic - no sex talk or flirting - and until very recently there has been no awkwardnesses whatsoever. I can talk to no one like I can talk to her and she has said the same. I think she is soul mate material and that blows my mind.

This introduction obviously hints of a very complicated situation and I will compile a more detailed post soon.

The relationship has become strained the past few weeks and I'm at my wits end - I need her and can't loose her as my confidant but am in danger of doing so.
Platonically I love her to bits but I/we have crossed the line recently ( we've not made love ). It introduced awkwardnesses.
It's so very complex.

I need help.
I need advice.
I need opinions.
Especially from females on here. ( Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus etc )

I'm not looking to meet anyone else here for a relationship - I desperately need help with this one.
I love her but am not 'in love' with her, somehow I've managed to hold back on that.
We agreed to have no contact for a while a few weeks ago - I see her at work occasionally and I need a plan to recover the situation - time is running out. The next few weeks I will see her at work much more and need to be prepared.

I'm almost inclined to cut and run but can't imagine not having her as my special friend. My confidante.

To give a you perspective on this I have had several infatuations, about 6, over the time I've been married and been 'in love' once ( not her ) but no affairs. She helped me cope when I was 'in love' about 4 years ago.
She told me a couple of years ago in general conversation that she has never had an infatuation. I know of a brief affair ( the only one since being married ) she had about 3 years ago, and I helped her cope at the time. She told me much about it. She was ( possibly still is ) 'in love' with him.

Those conversations are probably what made us so close and built the trust. We have both said that we know each other too well.

Thanks for listening - I'll make another post once I have put it together and identified the best forum.

straight&56

[Gigabitch]

Your relationship with her is structured within the confines of your existent marriages. It sounds like it's getting out of control- threatening the structure that holds it in place.

I need more explanation about "crossing the line". What does that mean? What happened? Was it an emotional breach? What?

Don't you dare cut out on her. I'm sure whatever you're going through, she's going through too. Calm down. You have what it takes to deal with this, whatever it is, with dignity. Don't panic.

[Illusional]

whoa... being that about the age of your daughter.. how about a different type of introduction?? j/k.

well.. let me say that i've never been married. however, this relationship with your "friend" might have developed because both of you are longing for something and you're receiving that comfort from one another. sure your marriages might not be the best, however, remember the getting to know another person part of a relationship?? the new parts are always the most fun and intriguing. i would consider that you take a step back and re-evaluation both of your situations and take it from there.

raverboy

[Gigabitch]

I would like to mention that my boyfriend is out of town for two weeks and the phrase "male member" is making me miss him. A lot.

[Junket]

I would like to mention that my boyfriend is out of town for two weeks and the phrase "male member" is making me miss him. A lot.

You're makin' me miss him too.

[Illusional]

i got an idea.. if you rub friz's head it will bring back memories of your male member...

raverboy

[straight&56]

Your relationship with her is structured within the confines of your existent marriages. It sounds like it's getting out of control- threatening the structure that holds it in place.

I need more explanation about "crossing the line". What does that mean? What happened? Was it an emotional breach? What?

Don't you dare cut out on her. I'm sure whatever you're going through, she's going through too. Calm down. You have what it takes to deal with this, whatever it is, with dignity. Don't panic.

Thanks for your reply.

The circumstances that brought this to a head a few weeks ago are this.

A young ( 22 yo ) friend of hers at work who knew of her affair thought it would be a good idea recently to search out the man

my friend had the affair with almost 3 years ago. Without going into details of his employment she was able to do this on the

Internet. The man had moved from our area to London soon after the affair ended and as far as my friend knew this is where he

remained and it was a safe distance away. However the 22 yo discovered that he had moved back within 15 miles of our location.

Like an idiot she told my friend of his new local location.

I should add that neither the man nor my friend wanted the affair to end but my friend ended it with thoughts of her son

foremost in her mind.

My friend's curiosity took the better of her and she drove to his workplace, saw his car then even TURNED ROUND ON HIS CARPARK

before driving away. She told me the following day and I reminded her of her heartache when the affair ended. I asked what if

he had seen her - well it turns out he did. Soon afterwards he rang her for an explanation and she tried to make excuses to

him. He gave her an ultimatum with about 1 weeks notice to leave her husband or never to have contact with him again.

Emotionally this set her back 2 years and she was in complete turmoil. There was the possibility she would leave our place of

work with a moments notice and I had to say something to her.

All I said to her was that I hoped I wasn't speaking out of place but I would be sad to see her go. My emotions were screaming

that I'd be devastated to see her go but I didn't tell her that. I didn't want to influence her descision - it was hers to

make. We talked and I helped her through her trauma. She didn't leave in response to the ultimatum. I had no ulterior motive

here and she knows that.

Emotionally I am not one to go where I'm not invited and within a couple of weeks it seemed to me that she was inviting that we

become closer. There were things she said ( hints, sometimes strong ones, only ) and did. Things that were almost out of

character for her in how she had been with me all the time I've known her.
I realised that to become romantically involved with her risked our exceptionally close platonic relationship and I initially

ignored my instincts to follow up on them. I realised that to fall in love with her would be stupid of me. I remember the

moment when I knew I was in trouble - we were alnone, had extended eye contact and then we both looked away. I remember

thinking to myself ' Oh no, not with Emma ( thats not her name )'.
There was a period approaching when I would hardly see her at work for 9 weeks ( shift changes and holidays ) and I said to her

' you know its going to be 9 weeks before we can chat properly again again'. I sent her an email suggesting ways we could keep

in touch and began to cross the line between platonic and non platonic in it telling her how I felt about her. We exchanged

several text messages and she was always nice but non comital on how she felt ( the way women are - indirect talking etc ).

Like I said I don't go where not invited and I was sure I'd been invited.

Anyway I messed up over the 9 weeks seperation ( it ends in 2 weeks time ) and she became angry with me. I am also angry with

her - not because of the rejection, I don't want to be where I'm not welcome. I'm angry because of a letter she gave me about 2

weeks ago denying that she ever felt any chemistry, was not physically attracted to me anyway and in any event I am older than

her mother. She said we needed time without contact but hoped we could be friends again in time.

I know she has been under a lot of stress lately as there are other things even more than the ultimatum she recently faced.

We always gravitated to each other when work allowed ( some co workers had noticed this ), not just me to her, she to me also,

we had quiet meets on corridors and she'd close doors for privacy.
Basically I don't believe her when she said she never felt any chemistry or there was no attraction. I think most mature adults

can see the signs when someone is attracted to them, they shout out at you as they did from her. Either that or I'm crazy.

This of course is where I could REALLY mess up if not careful.
I cant of course say to her ' I don't believe you ' and start to point out things she has done and said.
I am so sure I am right that I am beginning not to trust her and that is something we have had for a long time.
This is why I'm inclined to cut and run - a confidant you can no longer trust is no confidante.

She has said that had there been no possibility that she would have left in response to the ultimatum I probably wouldn't have

said anything to her and I think she's right on that. We were more than fine as we were.
Now we're both angry and estranged and theres the possibility we could become entrenched. I have seen her at work a few times

this week and we just exchange pleasantries at the moment.

There's a lot more to this situation but I hope this explains in enough detail what has happened and how the line was crossed.

I'm not after an affair exactly. Its not just sex, its not even sex - though I have thought about it, its a greater closeness.
Its so hard to explain.
Yes I'd like to meet her away from work. She strongly hinted at this before I messed up.

A bit like the situation in the 1970's hit song 'Me & Mrs Jones' was what I thought sounded good.

And I still don't know how to deal with it.

[Gigabitch]

Gah! So complicated! Remember when life was simple and all you had to worry about was who to go to the prom with?

The thought that kept running through my head as I read the above was about my own experience with getting very close to a male friend. Long story short, I got my heart broken. I got shredded. We ended up sleeping together and it got very complicated, and he totally cut me off emotionally. I didn't even know I was in love with him until it was all over. This still hurts. It was almost 14 years ago.

Be very careful that you do NOT do something irrevocable with this woman. She is probably much more emotionally bonded to you than even she realizes. She's trying to create some boundaries by writing the letter to you, but I think you know what the real story is.

I really feel for her- her situation sounds really unstable. Please try to remain steadfast at this point. Don't react. Don't stir things up. You'll end up getting hurt and she'll end up getting even more hurt.

Are you close with your wife at all? Are you planning to stay with her?

[misombra]

i can't believe that you and her "friend" would tell her the guy was around. i can't believe he gave her an ultimatum, which was probably a crock of shit and he was calling her bluff (correctly).

how would you feel if your wife had a "confidant?" or how would you feel if your daughter was hooked up with somebody more than twice her age?

i feel bad for this girl. her best friends are her enemies and her enemies are her best friends. if i were you, i'd leave the poor girl alone. she obviously doesn't need all this drama.

[ExpoNovak]

It sounds like this woman's emotionality is far more tied up in this old affair than in you, no offense. Her love is all over the place. She's married but unhappy, the man she wants to be with will only be with her if she will make major changes in her life that she is scared to make and you are the one who hears all about it.

My opinion is simply that if she is in this much turmoil over the ex then the odds are stacked against you. I don't personally believe in loving more than one person at a time. Obviously this girl doesn't even love herself enough to extract herself from an unhappy marriage. My guess is that she has a deep-rooted need to be "loved" yet isn't that good at separating that many various types of love there are floating around in the world.

If she wrote you a letter and asked you to back off--do it. If you really care about her (and it sounds like you do) then do whatever you can to be her friend and help her get her life in order without becoming more emotionally involved than you have to. And for goodness' sakes if she starts to dig a hole don't jump into it with her. You who have never had an affair owe yourself and your wife that much at least.

[straight&56]

Gah! So complicated! Remember when life was simple and all you had to worry about was who to go to the prom with?

The thought that kept running through my head as I read the above was about my own experience with getting very close to a male friend. Long story short, I got my heart broken. I got shredded. We ended up sleeping together and it got very complicated, and he totally cut me off emotionally. I didn't even know I was in love with him until it was all over. This still hurts. It was almost 14 years ago.

Be very careful that you do NOT do something irrevocable with this woman. She is probably much more emotionally bonded to you than even she realizes. She's trying to create some boundaries by writing the letter to you, but I think you know what the real story is.

I really feel for her- her situation sounds really unstable. Please try to remain steadfast at this point. Don't react. Don't stir things up. You'll end up getting hurt and she'll end up getting even more hurt.

Are you close with your wife at all? Are you planning to stay with her?

Gigabitch.
Thanks again for your reply - you are being very helpful and it is appreciated.

I should have searched for a forum like this weeks ago instead of trying to work it out myself and we probably wouldn't be in this situation.

In all I post here I am trying very hard not give clues that would cause any of the people involved to be identified. After all we are on a worldwide public forum that will probably be viewable for years. I'm trying not to name employment fields nor locations as this could give clues to identities. As a result I have changed my location to UK as opposed to the more localised one in the UK I initially used.
One reason I'm being very careful here is because only recently I said to her I would tell no one about this and I feel I'm betraying her trust in a way just by writing about it here - but I now know I can't deal with it myself - I'm too involved to think clearly about it all. And it needs to be resolved which will take some time.

Sad to hear of your experience of 14 years ago - why is love so complicated?

Your suggestion that I do nothing irrevocable is only just in time as I set things in train about a week ago ( after her letter ) that were intended to be irrevocable. I hoped that they would have been implemented by now and before we were in regular contact at work again. I am fortunate in that I am able to move my work location to another site a few miles away and refuse work at her location if I wish. This takes a little time to implement - it will still go ahead but I now think I need to not cut off completely from her location which was my intent. I will work at both sites.

I appreciate what you are saying re me knowing the real story is but that's not certain. In her letter ( OK she was angry when she wrote it ) she is direct and says she is not interested ( romantically that is). I am inclined to think this may be a change of heart from things before I messed up but nevertheless it is very direct.

Maybe she is much more emotionally bonded to me than even she realizes and I think that could be true but it's not certain.
These doubts are what are causing the anxiety in me.

I think her situation with the man she had the affair with is decided and I don't think that is making her situation unstable. Even when the affair was happening, outwardly she appeared calm, though at the start of the affair she said she felt like she had murdered someone because she felt that guilty.
Outwardly she appears to be very stable to someone that doesn't know her - she seems able to compartmentalise things very well. Much better than me. She does have quite a few things on her mind though at present.

I won't take any drastic action to stir things up. Resolution is what I want not more anger in either of us.
We have never been angry with each other before, we've had mild disagreements but never anger.

Thanks again for your help Gigabitch.

**********************************

While writing this I have had email notification of a new post to this thread from misombra.

Just to clarify this for misombra I have added what now follows.

I did not tell her the man had moved back locally again ( I wouldn't have had I known ) it was her friend ( as I described her ). That 'friend' is 22 years old, immature, single and thought it exciting to bring this news to her. How mistaken she was.
I have been aware of much of the detail regarding the affair and I can assure you that the ultimatum was not a 'crock of shit and he was ( not ) calling her bluff (correctly).'

If you have never been there in such a serious situation I respectfully suggest you withhold your judgemental comments.
I think many on this forum would testify that its easy to be judgemental in such situations when you haven't been in their shoes and in their lives.

how would you feel if your wife had a "confidant?" or how would you feel if your daughter was hooked up with somebody more than twice her age?

If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage.
I have gently suggested to my confidante some things that might improve the relationship with her husband over the time I've known her. I am not being ruled here by a lump in my pants, lets get that clear. And I'm not hooked up with her as you put it.

I suggest you read the thread again but carefully this time. My confidante isn't the 22 year old. There is a big age difference but I am not more than twice her age. If someone can benefit from another's different life experiences (especially if they are of a different generation and/or sex) and can do that without being judgemental then they have access to invaluable resources that they can decide the value of. Is that not what a forum like this is for, surely its NOT for the titillation of others.

i feel bad for this girl. her best friends are her enemies and her enemies are her best friends. if i were you, i'd leave the poor girl alone. she obviously doesn't need all this drama.

This friendship came about over time through mutual respect, being non judgemental and extraordinary truthful communication. It was not initiated by me, I have not preyed on her. It was not initiated by her. It grew over time through increasing mutual trust. And lets get one thing clear, I am not pestering my confidante. Over the past two years she has come to me on many matters and I to her.
This situation is difficult enough without irrelevant input. I am not just a fair weather friend to her if that is the type of friendships you are used to.

[IndiReloaded]

Hey Straight, I'm a long-time married woman who has been in a situation where my best friend & I fell for each other during a period of emotional upheaval. We have been friends for over half our lives, almost 20 years; he's like family. No affair, but easily could have. So I think I may have a read on your situation.

Things are complicated and I feel for you. I haven't yet had time to read over all your posts but I will. I'm happy to explain how to avoid destroying your marriage but is that what you want? I don't know how to tell you to cheat or leave your wife for your 'soulmate' b/c that's not the path I chose to take.

Whatever you do, *think* hard, very hard, and try to avoid reacting to things emotionally. Hormones come and go & its easy to get caught up 'in the moment' unless you realize how very fleeting these things are.

[straight&56]

It sounds like this woman's emotionality is far more tied up in this old affair than in you, no offense. Her love is all over the place. She's married but unhappy, the man she wants to be with will only be with her if she will make major changes in her life that she is scared to make and you are the one who hears all about it.

My opinion is simply that if she is in this much turmoil over the ex then the odds are stacked against you. I don't personally believe in loving more than one person at a time. Obviously this girl doesn't even love herself enough to extract herself from an unhappy marriage. My guess is that she has a deep-rooted need to be "loved" yet isn't that good at separating that many various types of love there are floating around in the world.

If she wrote you a letter and asked you to back off--do it. If you really care about her (and it sounds like you do) then do whatever you can to be her friend and help her get her life in order without becoming more emotionally involved than you have to. And for goodness' sakes if she starts to dig a hole don't jump into it with her. You who have never had an affair owe yourself and your wife that much at least.

Hi Exponovak,

Thanks for your reply.

I Know her emotionality is more tied up with the man of her old affair, no offence taken, I'm not deluded about that.
In one of my early emails to her I pointed out that we each knew where each other's heart truly lies and that it was not with
each other. Mine is with the woman I was 'in love' with those few years ago.

Yes the odds are stacked against me I know but I'm not after a full blown affair with her. Her relationship with her ex is ( as I understand it ) an impossibility for her and her turmoil is subsiding I think.

I do really care about her and I have taken a step back. Did so following her letter.

Actually I do believe that to platonically love several carefully chosen people is acceptable. Though I do not believe it is possible to be 'in love' with more than one person. Maybe she can't separate the many types of love, I'm wondering now whether I can though I always thought I could.

I'm under no illusion about her love, but we have been close for a long time.

As for not jumping into a deep hole with her we'll have to see. I know I mustn't fall in love with her but maybe I'm doing that though trying not too.

Soul mate stuff - that's different.

Thanks for your help.

[vashti]

It looks to me like you crush was looking at you more like a father figure. Sure, she may have experienced a moment or two of sexual curiosity, but overall, it doesn't sound like she is invested the way YOU are.

BTW - I am a long-time married woman, and if my husband wrote what you did about another woman, I'd be pissed. Not only are you overly emotionally involved with her, you are violating the privacy one normally expects from their spouse. I'd be humiliated. I bet your wife would be, too.

Maybe you should invest your time and energy into reconnecting to your wife. SHE is supposed to be your "soul mate" (if you believe in that sort of thing).

[misombra]

While writing this I have had email notification of a new post to this thread from misombra.

Just to clarify this for misombra I have added what now follows.

I did not tell her the man had moved back locally again ( I wouldn't have had I known ) it was her friend ( as I described her ). That 'friend' is 22 years old, immature, single and thought it exciting to bring this news to her. How mistaken she was.
I have been aware of much of the detail regarding the affair and I can assure you that the ultimatum was not a 'crock of shit and he was ( not ) calling her bluff (correctly).'

If you have never been there in such a serious situation I respectfully suggest you withhold your judgemental comments.
I think many on this forum would testify that its easy to be judgemental in such situations when you haven't been in their shoes and in their lives.


If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage.
I have gently suggested to my confidante some things that might improve the relationship with her husband over the time I've known her. I am not being ruled here by a lump in my pants, lets get that clear. And I'm not hooked up with her as you put it.

I suggest you read the thread again but carefully this time. My confidante isn't the 22 year old. There is a big age difference but I am not more than twice her age. If someone can benefit from another's different life experiences (especially if they are of a different generation and/or sex) and can do that without being judgemental then they have access to invaluable resources that they can decide the value of. Is that not what a forum like this is for, surely its NOT for the titillation of others.



This friendship came about over time through mutual respect, being non judgemental and extraordinary truthful communication. It was not initiated by me, I have not preyed on her. It was not initiated by her. It grew over time through increasing mutual trust. And lets get one thing clear, I am not pestering my confidante. Over the past two years she has come to me on many matters and I to her.
This situation is difficult enough without irrelevant input. I am not just a fair weather friend to her if that is the type of friendships you are used to.

what a crock of shit. sorry, i don't believe that for a second.

anyway, if i were this girl i would quit my job and move far away.