Describe the "feeling"

[izzyman72]

Love is when you care more about another person than yourself.

[Zach]

I stopped reading after "The brain is flooded with..." because #1 it doesn't make sense, since I am not very smart when it comes to science, and #2 it would destroy my world, how I see things and I would be very depressed. Why? Because I want to live in a magical world, where love just happens and not care how or why

What you can do is think how I think. You can acknowledge that those chemicals exist and there is a tie between them and Love, but you can also acknowledge that there is a possibility that those chemicals are a byproduct of the feeling instead of the other way around.

Its possible.

[Tiay]

that's like a addict saying "no, the high isn't caused by the rush of dopamine activated by cocaine.. it's the high *feeling* that causes the dopamine release! hey it's possible". No.. it's bloody not.
Of course, you can decide to believe that god or whatever greater power designed us to function this way.

[Zach]

Why isn't it possible? Anything is possible. It may be dumb to believe that from anothers perspective but everyone has their right to believe what they want. I don't actually believe that.. I never really thought about it very much.. but I do acknowledge that it is possible. Seemingly unlikely though.

EDIT: Anyone who wishes to continue you this conversation PM me so we dont derail this thread.

[Tiay]

why? I think this debate is related and interesting.

In a sense.. we can't *really* prove that the rest of the world isn't all fake, or a dream. Anything that meets our eyes could be an illusion. From your perspective, I could be a robot. You could be a brain in a vat somewhere being fed information. You really can't actually *prove* much outside of your own mind. So yes, you can believe whatever you like.

BUT, for the sake of debate and sanity, we generally assume that; other people are not robots, the reality we know is not a dream.. and proven scientific facts are not false.

[Zach]

why? I think this debate is related and interesting.

In a sense.. we can't *really* prove that the rest of the world isn't all fake, or a dream. Anything that meets our eyes could be an illusion. From your perspective, I could be a robot. You could be a brain in a vat somewhere being fed information. You really can't actually *prove* much outside of your own mind. So yes, you can believe whatever you like.

BUT, for the sake of debate and sanity, we generally assume that; other people are not robots, the reality we know is not a dream.. and proven scientific facts are not false.

Its related and interesting yes, but its not what the OP asked.

But you know what happens when you assume.

[vashti]

I know for a fact that OV is a science geek and will not mind at all if this discussion evolves into the scientific realm. Anyway, he already knows all about the chemical reactions and now I am quite sure he will enjoy watching you and Tiay argue about the validity of science.

[Zach]

I know for a fact that OV is a science geek and will not mind at all if this discussion evolves into the scientific realm. Anyway, he already knows all about the chemical reactions and now I am quite sure he will enjoy watching you and Tiay argue about the validity of science.

It doesn't really matter at all, because all we truly can do is assume when it comes down to it. Its like arguing over God, its pointless. I have been in literally hundreds of debates and I can tell you right now that it will serve no purpose besides the thrill of merely debating.

The only way we could somehow prove that the chemicals cause love is by reference to the time frame in which this all occurs. If the neurotransmitters shoot off then then after this occurs the test subject then experiences the sensation of love, we would have something to talk about........maybe.

But even then we could always throw weird twist into it to make it a endless debate. Yes you could be a monkey randomly smashing on a keyboard somehow randomly generating letters in the perfect sequence in response to my messages but its highly unlikely but not provable. So talking about proof is pointless, thus we follow our hearts and the world was good.

--Zach

[The Great OV!!!]

It doesn't really matter at all, because all we truly can do is assume when it comes down to it. Its like arguing over God, its pointless. I have been in literally hundreds of debates and I can tell you right now that it will serve no purpose besides the thrill of merely debating.

I just want to let you know that this is not the case with everything. Statments can be proven to be true or false, only opinion can be debated to be relative. Ofcourse unless you believe nothing exists and some god/demon is feeding you images of things that do not exist, but if so then why reply to my thread? you don't believe I am here anyways. This is NOT like god. We have scientific evidence proven that these reactions take place, it is not comparable to the god argument at all...that is just silly. If I said that the sun doesn't exist what would you say? would you seriously say "OK, YOUR OPINION IS AWESOME!"?...nah, you would probably call me crazy. Silly people, I say some people win a debate by default...like athiests..I had a debate about god with a thiest before and it went like this "Prove god doesnt exist" "Prove who?" ...THE END!

In a sense.. we can't *really* prove that the rest of the world isn't all fake, or a dream.

I find it silly when people use this as an argument because the fact that they argue with me proves that they do not believe it themself...why would someone argue with nobody?

[The Great OV!!!]

Someone mentioned what kids think about it, so here is that site quoted of what some kids said love is. Really entertaining lol

Since a very long time ago, people have searched for the meaning of love. But even the great philosophers, with their profound definitions, could not fully touch its true essence. In a survey of 4-8 year olds, kids share their views on love. But what do little kids know about love? Read on and be surprised that despite their young and innocent minds, kids already have a simple but deep grasp of that four-letter word.

"Love is when you go out to eat and give somebody most of your french fries without making them give you any of theirs."

"Love is when someone hurts you. And you get so mad but you don't yell at him because you know it would hurt his feelings."

"Love is what makes you smile when you're tired."

"Love is when my mommy makes coffee for my daddy and she takes a sip before giving it to him, to make sure the taste is OK."

"Love is when you kiss all the time. Then when you get tired of kissing, you still want to be together and you talk more. My mommy and daddy are like that. They look gross when they kiss but they look happy and sometimes they dance in the kitchen while kissing."

"Love is what's in the room with you at Christmas if you stop opening presents and listen."

"If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who you hate."

"Love is hugging. Love is kissing. Love is saying no."

"When you tell someone something bad about yourself and you're scared she won't love you anymore. But then you get surprised because not only does she still love you, she loves you even more."

"There are 2 kinds of love. Our love. God's love. But God makes both kinds of them."

"Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then he wears it everyday."

"Love is like a little old woman and a little old man who are still friends even after they've know each other so well."

"During my piano recital, I was on a stage and scared. I looked at all the people watching me and saw my daddy waving and smiling. He was the only one doing that. I wasn't scared anymore."

"Love is-if you hold hands and sit beside each other in the cafeteria. That means you're in love. Otherwise, you can sit across from each other and be okay."

"My mommy loves me more than anybody. You don't see anyone else kissing me to sleep at night."

"Love is when mommy gives daddy the best piece of chicken."

"Don't feel so bad if you don't have a boyfriend. There's lots of stuff you can do without one."

"Love is when mommy sees daddy smelly and sweaty and still says he is handsomer than Robert Redford."

"If you want somebody to love you, then just be yourself. Some people try to act like somebody else, somebody the boy likes better. I think the boy isn't being very good if he does this to you and you should just find a nicer boy."

"Love is when your puppy licks your face even after you left him alone all day"

"When you're born and see your mommy for the first time.

"Love is what makes people hide in the dark corners of movie theaters."

"Love goes on even when you stop breathing and you pick up where you left off when you reach heaven."

"My enemies taught me how to love."

"I know my older sister loves me because she gives me all her old clothes and has to go out and buy new ones."

"You really shouldn't say 'I love you' unless you mean it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot. People forget."

"You have to fall in love before you get married. Then when you're married, you just sit around and read books together."

"I let my big sister pick on me because my Mom says she only picks on me because she loves me. So I pick on my baby sister because I love her."

"Love cards like Valentine's cards say stuff on them that we'd like to say ourselves, but we wouldn't be caught dead saying."

"When you love somebody, your eyelashes go up and down and little stars

"Love is when mommy sees daddy on the toilet and she doesn't think it's gross."

"You never have to be lonely. There's always somebody to love, even if it's just a squirrel or a kitten."

"You can break love, but it won't die."

[The Great OV!!!]

Thus, one might argue with a perceived "entity" knowing full well it doesn't exist, if only for the distraction from the unending boredom of non-existence.

Now you are just grasping for straws. Argue for entertainment then? pointless. If your percieve it to be there and interact with it you give it the benefit of a doubt of it's existence.

[The Great OV!!!]

Love is when you care more about another person than yourself.

Well, that is the most simple way to put it. Probaby the least wrong too.

[Tiay]

I've mostly given up debating about god. It's completely impossible to prove anything, since belief in god necessarily specifies that god is invisible and not disprovable- this, to me, goes towards disproving it.

but anyways- I don't feel like getting into that whammy, it's too OT

You can acknowledge that those chemicals exist and there is a tie between them and Love, but you can also acknowledge that there is a possibility that those chemicals are a byproduct of the feeling instead of the other way around

quite frankly, it annoys me that people choose their beliefs not based on which theory has the most proof.
I mean, you did look at the proven biological facts, and then, because they didn't suit you personally, you looked around for how to change it around so that it fits you, and *chose* to believe that instead so that you don't have to change the way you think about love personally. You even suggested that lilwing choose to think the way you think about it. I don't get that; I don't choose what to believe. I look at what has the most evidence, what's most likely to be true.
You KNOW this process is going on in your mind.. so.. how can you even still.. believe yourself? It sounds like lying to yourself to make yourself feel better! It's like "right.. i'm gonna consciously choose think about it this way because the other way upsets me"

That's like me looking at a room and saying, damn, I don't like the colour of the walls- I know! I'll just decide to believe that they're not that colour at all. Sure I can stomp my foot and ask for eye tests and colour analysis before I change my mind, but in the end I can always argue that nothing is provable and everything is possible, so I can always hold on to the belief that it is not vile lime green. You're gonna say that analogy isn't the same thing, but to me that sounds just as illogical and self-deceptive.

EDIT: I want to note that I wrote this before I saw a lot of the above stuff. just catching up now.

Yes you could be a monkey randomly smashing on a keyboard somehow randomly generating letters in the perfect sequence in response to my messages but its highly unlikely but not provable. So talking about proof is pointless, thus we follow our hearts and the world was good.

So if it suited your heart, you could make yourself choose to believe i'm a monkey?

[The Great OV!!!]

Whether something is pointless does not rule out its occurrence; it only makes the occurrence...uh...pointless. If it didn't happen, would we even have a concept & word to describe it?

When I say existence, I mean tangible. People pray to entities that have no tangible aspect. Back to the argument...arguing with a perceived entity, one that doesn't exist, one that isn't tangible, is common, as far as I can tell. I know I've had an argument in a dream. Take that one step farther...I know I've had a dream or two in which I was aware of my dreaming state (sex dream...I *definitely* tried to steer it toward more sex...didn't work...the dream subsided into fully conscious fantasy very soon after).

What are you debating now? If it is usefull to debate or not? I never siad it is not useful. I was refering to the debate being pointless if the person believes in Descarte's little demon theory. A person who acknowledges something being there is give the object the benefit of existence, this is not philosophy anymore...it is psychology. If you talk to me YOU DO believe I am there(physically), you have too or you would not talk to me...psychology...not philosophy anymore. You can argue it but you do it naturally. You are not rational in your dreams, so you can believe everything is real even though it is not. This is proven by the fact that when you wake up you acknowledge the fact that you just had a dream.

[anachronistic]

I agree, OV. Just because I can see the biological reasons, does not mean I'm cold hearted about love, or that I can't feel the magic of it. Knowing the names of chemicals and hormones and their function does not devalue love. To me, it shows how amazing the workings of the mind are.

I wasn't saying that you were cold hearted.

I just don't believe that love is all a bunch of little chemicals. Why? Because in my heart, that is what I chose to believe. It makes the most sense to me. Chemicals=love does not make sense to me. It never will.

I don't want to know, simply.

I am not choosing to believe that chemicals don't exist or anything. I choose to not study, to not understand. Because knowing how everything works is depressing to me. And in my own little world (yes this might sound crazy to you, but) chemicals have nothing to do with love. I am going to have to stay out of this thread if it continues with the science stuff.


OV- Those kids' letters are really cute