Hurtslikehell

[determinedguy]

My wife left me in February. This month would have marked 6 years together.
We had so much crap we had to endure together- money problems, transportation problems, and one bad neighbor after another. We lived over an extremely loud bar for over 2 years. Then we had alcoholic neighbors that loved to party and blast their music. We had my beloved cat that i had since i was 12 years old die in 2003 and that tore me apart.
She pulled away from me, not being able to handle my grief for very long. I gave her everything and spoiled her rotten. Clothes, money, teddy-bears, books, jewelry. I wrote her poetry and made her artwork and did the sweetest things for her. For 2 1/2 years, she had no income whatsoever and I had to pay all the bills, make all the sacrifices and support her while dealing with my grief, and that terrible bar that she forced me to move above in the first place.
She pulled away from me and started chatting all night long on the internet instead of going out and getting some source of income. Finally she was about to get on SSI (disability), the alcoholics were evicted, i was volunteering my time- i thought everything was getting better. Then i find out she was having an online affair and phone sex with an internet guy that she swore was just a friend. She had a complete made-up world for herself, i discovered. I set him straight on her double-life and he apologized.
I was furious. Then she told me she was leaving me. For 2 1/2 years, i supported this girl only to have her leave as soon as she got her own money! I feel so used.
We had an agreement that with her new income, she would handle the bills for a month or 2, and give me a rest! She broke that deal and broke my heart.
I still loved her, though, and tried to work things out. She still left. i wanted to end things there, but she convinced me we still had a chance. So for 6 months, she played the hot and cold game. We'd get together and she'd be wonderful. A week would go by, and then she didn't want me anymore. Back and forth again and again. She told me another guy was coming around, but he was just a friend. (This is true, I found out she doesn't like him at all and using him while he has feelings for her.)

A few days ago, she ends it officially. She tells me we're incompatible. I'm boring. She doesn't need me anymore. Afterall, she has family and friends helping her out and guys asking her out all the time while i have no one. She was all i had left. She wants to forget about the past and move on, so i am left holding all this emotional baggage by myself. Everything i did for her, everything i sacrificed for her, everything i forgave her for- doesn't matter to her anymore.
I still love her and i know in my head i deserve better, but i thought we'd always be together forever. I moved 500 miles away from my home to live near her family. She was everything to me and now she's gone. After 6 months of getting the run around, I'm getting a counselor on Monday. It's hard for me to trust people because i've been hurt so many times before, so i don't have any close friends.
I cry a lot thinking about her, and i knew all along that she was never as committed to me as i was to her. I'm a good writer, so i'm getting all my feelings out in songs. I know she's not thinking of me. She says she's happier without me- after i spoiled her rotten, went without so she didn't have to, took care of her, wrote her poetry and made her art, forgave her all her lying and cheating and now she thinks she's better than me.
Did she ever really love me? Was I used the whole time? Will anyone ever truly love me? I'm such a kind and sweet and generous guy with a lot of love to give. But i have all this baggage i have to deal with now, plus deal with my painful childhood. I was beaten and molested and made to feel like i was worthless my entire life by more than one family member. She was my first serious relationship, too. But i am determined to get my songs published one way or another- I'm finally believing in me. I want to show her what she gave up, and what she could have had if she had believed in me half as much as i believed in her.
I'm interested in making friends with similiar experiences. I have aim and i'm a good listener. Thank you to any repliers.

[King Zarathu]

Ouch.


Listen, I'll be the first asshole to reply to you since all of those "Hot Love Pancake(s)" (why in the hell is the 's' between parentheses? Shouldn't you know whether or not you have more than one pancake? God I hate people....) are um.. laying in bed.


OK, so you had a tragedy happen to you and you're going through shit. In case you haven't opened your eyes due to extreme emotions:

1) That female is a bitch.

2) You do deserve better.

3) You are self-supporting.

4) You will come out of this OK.


That being said, there's nothing but one thing left to do: Move on.

That's right, kids! It sucks, it's tough, it's a bitch, it's that one thing we hate doing... But you're at yet another time in your life when you pretty much have to. The more you forgive this person for, the more of a flaming asshole she's going to become. She's like a child, really. Give her an inch, she wants a foot.


DO NOT GIVE HER A FOOT, UNLESS IT'S A FOOT UP HER ASS.

[Ellynn]

Now, why exactly was it that she couldn't work? Was it laziness or is she honestly in need of SSI?

To me it sounds like she's looking for all she can get from a man, and once she gets bored, she moves on to someone else.

She obviously already has moved on, but she is just messing with your mind in the meantime.

Do yourself a favor and get far far away from her.

[Gigabitch]

Did she ever really love me? Was I used the whole time? Will anyone ever truly love me? I'm such a kind and sweet and generous guy with a lot of love to give.

I have a good feeling about this. The fact that you're going to see a counselor is going to really help. Not just the actual counseling, but that you've sent your subconsious the message: I want to change this.

I think she ended it because she could feel that change coming and knew it was the end for her.

I wonder what kind of songs you'll write when you find someone you can really love. IMO, you had no respect for her, so you couldn't really love her completely. Why do I think that? Because it would be impossible to respect this lazy, cruel slag who did nothing but take advantage of you.

Yay for you. You're free. Someday soon you'll be available for someone new. I hope she's great.

[determinedguy]

Zarathu- That's the thing, she wasn't always a bitch. I spoiled her so much and let her walk all over me, and she became a selfish, self-absorbed, arrogant person for my efforts. I realize the person I'm mourning isn't the person she is now- I'm morning the loss of the innocent girl who she used to be. She used to cuddle her little care bear that she got from her dad when she was a little girl (Swiftheart) under the blanket with the saddest puppy-dog expression. I used to want to just take her in my arms and protect her from the whole world. She was constantly screwing up her life (and mine) and in poor health, and I wanted to save her from herself and all her demons. But when it came time for her to heal ME (after my cat died), she couldn't handle it for very long. She withdrew, little by little, and is now a selfish, cold-hearted bitch. No guy will ever put up with what I put up with and what she's become, and so I know she'll never have another long-lasting relationship unless she changes. She's laughing now, but I will be laughing in the end. I always lived to take care of others (my pets, my sister, my wife), and that's one reason why this is so hard- 'cause now I have got to live for me. The music is pouring out of my soul, so that is what I'm gonna focus on from now on as my long-term goal. If it takes years to hear them on the radio, then so be it. I'm never gonna give up on myself again- I'm too talented for that. Even if I lose confident in myself to handle all this, I truly believe in these songs and I refuse to let them die without seeing the light of day. This gives me new focus, plus will help me make peace with everything that happened.
For short term goals I'm gonna continue to see my new counselor (things went very well in today's first session), join a community club or 2 here in town, get myself in even better shape (I've put on muscle and lost about 30 lbs since my wife left), and I probably will join a divorced/separated group that meets here in town and hopefully make some good friends. I'm also thinking about getting a motorcycle and a tattoo or two. I'm gonna prove everyone that ever doubted me wrong.

[determinedguy]

Ellynn- She was depressed and had chronic headaches. Afterall, we went through a lot of crap together. She used to be able to work just fine and her inability seemingly came out of nowhere. She had a terrible doctor who threw drug after drug at her, and it messed her up inside and cost me a fortune. She had one job during those 2 1/2 years at BK, but she was only able to last about 6-8 weeks or so. She didn't get along with all the teeny boppers. I was very supportive and proud of her for lasting as long as she did, because fast food is a crappy, stressful job, but at the same time I knew I was going right back into that sinking financial ship. She was treated like a queen, and I still don't see how she could have been so unhappy. If I had a girl who gave me half of what I gave her, I would be very happy. I know it sucks not having your own money for so long, but that's the thing- the majority of MY money was spent on her. My money really wasn't MY money, because while I went without and watched the purse strings and sacrificed like crazy, she had all the fun and got all the gifts- And so did her friends and family. I was ridiculously generous.
Word of advice to everyone- never let one person be your EVERYTHING. We all need something to fall back on if it doesn't work out. I know my own faults- I admit I smothered her with my problems since I had no one else, but I also showered her with love and endless gifts and I cleaned up her messes for her. She smothered me with her problems, too. We had very little help throughout the years and we went through hell together, hand in hand. And by not helping out financially, she trapped us in a terrible place to live, and made us live in substandard conditions. Plus she made my own stress and unhappiness that much worse by doing so. Sadly though, I think she blames me for everything that went wrong. Well either way, I am living for ME now for the first time in many, many years.

[determinedguy]

Gigabitch (cool name. So you're as bitchy as 1,000,000,000 other girls put together- wouldn't want to be on your bad side-lol.)- My first Counseling session went really well today. I'm very determined to pursue my dreams. I have no respect for her NOW -that's true- because she turned into a selfishly cruel and ungrateful individual. She wasn't always like that. But I definitely deserve better.
Thank you to everyone who replied to me. I'm gonna be okay now, and I'm gonna stick around this board for awhile and see if I can help others in need.
-DeterminedGuy

[vashti]

I'm am going to play the devil's advocate and say that you sound like a professional victim. I am guessing that you have some of that "knight in shining armour" thing working against you, meaning you take pleasure in "rescuing" emotionally crippled women because it nmakes you feel like a hero. You made a bad choice in a woman. You will need to learn to make healthier choices.

By the way, what is this "MY money" crap? When you are married, it normally becomes "ours".

[King Zarathu]

Zarathu- That's the thing, she wasn't always a bitch. I spoiled her so much and let her walk all over me, and she became a selfish, self-absorbed, arrogant person for my efforts. I realize the person I'm mourning isn't the person she is now- I'm morning the loss of the innocent girl who she used to be. She used to cuddle her little care bear that she got from her dad when she was a little girl (Swiftheart) under the blanket with the saddest puppy-dog expression. I used to want to just take her in my arms and protect her from the whole world. She was constantly screwing up her life (and mine) and in poor health, and I wanted to save her from herself and all her demons. But when it came time for her to heal ME (after my cat died), she couldn't handle it for very long. She withdrew, little by little, and is now a selfish, cold-hearted bitch. No guy will ever put up with what I put up with and what she's become, and so I know she'll never have another long-lasting relationship unless she changes. She's laughing now, but I will be laughing in the end. I always lived to take care of others (my pets, my sister, my wife), and that's one reason why this is so hard- 'cause now I have got to live for me. The music is pouring out of my soul, so that is what I'm gonna focus on from now on as my long-term goal. If it takes years to hear them on the radio, then so be it. I'm never gonna give up on myself again- I'm too talented for that. Even if I lose confident in myself to handle all this, I truly believe in these songs and I refuse to let them die without seeing the light of day. This gives me new focus, plus will help me make peace with everything that happened.
For short term goals I'm gonna continue to see my new counselor (things went very well in today's first session), join a community club or 2 here in town, get myself in even better shape (I've put on muscle and lost about 30 lbs since my wife left), and I probably will join a divorced/separated group that meets here in town and hopefully make some good friends. I'm also thinking about getting a motorcycle and a tattoo or two. I'm gonna prove everyone that ever doubted me wrong.

Listen... these are the things that aren't right.

1) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because she was somebody to protect.
2) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because you felt like you needed to save her.
3) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because she was somebody to take care of.

We should have quite the focus on #3 here, because this can be taken several ways and I'd like to specify what I'm talking about.

Humans are supposed to be self-sufficient, they're supposed to be independent, and therefore, they're supposed to know how to take care of themselves. When you do not have the proper mental (or physical) equipment for this, you need to keep living at home with mommy and daddy because that's THEIR job--but as soon as you hit 18, 19, or even 20 sometimes I don't see why a man or woman needs to be taken care of. They should be able to get out of the house, etc, etc, etc, you know where this is going, OK.

That being said, now is the appropriate time when somebody needs to tell her to grow up.

I always lived to take care of others (my pets, my sister, my wife), and that's one reason why this is so hard- 'cause now I have got to live for me.

Perhaps it feels attractive (or subconsciously attractive) to you now, but it really isn't healthy and I can guarantee that you'll get sick and tired of it SOMEWHERE down the line! You know how to take care of yourself--you've got income, etc. You know how that saying goes, "you should take care of yourself before you take care of others"? Well, I think we should rephrase that a little bit... I think you should take care of yourself before taking care of others who really need it, or are at a point in their life where it's normal to need that kind of care and help.

She's laughing now, but I will be laughing in the end.

That's right. She is, and you will be. Just wait.



=====

And I probably said a couple of things wrong because it's early in the morning >.< so correct me if you saw anything.

[determinedguy]

I am guessing that you have some of that "knight in shining armour" thing working against you, meaning you take pleasure in "rescuing" emotionally crippled women because it nmakes you feel like a hero.

Yes, definitely, and I've already realized that about myself. But when we met, I was emotionally crippled, too. An abusive childhood and an isolated adulthood will do that to you. We were there for each other at first, but it ended up with me doing way more than she.

You made a bad choice in a woman. You will need to learn to make healthier choices.

It's not that simple. You can't live with someone for 6 years, eat, sleep, and breathe together sometimes 24/7 (and yes, I realize that's not healthy.) We were the poster couple of co-dependency. I was forced to mature before her because I had to handle everything. It'll be a while before I can completely let her go. Once upon a time, she was my everything.

By the way, what is this "MY money" crap?

She stopped working in august '03. We didn't get married until April '05. You must not have ever had to be completely responsible for another adult before, or you would understand how difficult it is. The term "Ours" is only feasible if both parties are contributing something to each other and the relationship. She not only stopped contributing money to the household funds and drained what I had dry, but she stopped doing chores so I had to do those, too, plus she withdrew and withheld love, affection, and sex from me. I even had to cover a bad check she wrote to a local business. I also had to cover her share of the rent (before we got married and before she stopped working) at least on one occasion. We had an agreement to split all the bills while we lived together and before we got married, but she blew her money and so I wound up covering her ass. She was terrible with finances.
In short, I gave her everything, and in the end, she gave me nothing in return but broken promises and a broken heart.
Do you think it's easy giving to everyone else, and get nothing in return?
I bought gifts for her family & her friends but got very little credit from them. My b-day was NEVER acknowledged by her parents even though I got things for them that my wife said they would like on theirs. On holidays, I got obligatory shirts from her dad that I didn't want plus never even fit me. I also gave to several charities and did charitable work while this was all going on. I was always the giver, always the one who treated other people out to eat- you probably have no idea what it feels like to feel so used like this. I gave and I gave and I gave, and got so little in return.
But in the end, I suppose what I have now is priceless- self-respect and a focus of what I'm supposed to be doing with my life.
-DETERMINED GUY

[determinedguy]

1) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because she was somebody to protect.
2) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because you felt like you needed to save her.
3) You felt an even STRONGER attraction because she was somebody to take care of.

I'm very self-aware about everything, especially myself. You are right, but I also needed to be saved by her. When we first met, she was very exciting- a motivating breath of fresh air. When we got our own place together, she changed and turned into a loving sweetheart -childish, yes- and I fell in love with her. We rushed way too many aspects of our relationship. Hopefully, I know enough now not do it again.

Humans are supposed to be self-sufficient, they're supposed to be independent, and therefore, they're supposed to know how to take care of themselves. When you do not have the proper mental (or physical) equipment for this, you need to keep living at home with mommy and daddy because that's THEIR job--but as soon as you hit 18, 19, or even 20 sometimes I don't see why a man or woman needs to be taken care of.

Everyone matures at a different pace. I was immature, too, when we met. But I quickly had to become the responsible one. She was immature because her parents had done everything for her- they didn't let her make enough of her own decisions. I was immature because of a terrible childhood and isolated adulthood. I let my fears keep me from having a meaningful life, but I have come a looooooooong way and am very different now.

You know how to take care of yourself--you've got income, etc.

I know how to take care of myself financially. I know how to take care of myself physically. But emotionally and mentally I am only now just learning. I treat every day as a new learning experience and I am finding out who I really am and what I want out of life. But like I said above, it's gonna be awhile before I can get over her. There will always be a connection- we went through so much together all by ourselves, with very little help. We had 3 cats together. We lived in 4 different places together. We know things about each other no one else alive knows. We accepted each other despite all our emotional handicaps and loved each other unconditionally. We had each other- and that was enough for years, but now we both need more. However, On the rare ocassions we get together, the emotional and spiritual connection is still there. She says she still loves me as a friend. My feelings are stronger. I feel her hovering mom has done damage to her and our relationship. Her dad left her mom and younger bro 2 years ago. Her mom
calls my wife up constantly, at least 6 times a day, complaining about her dad and how much she misses him and how terrible he has become. This has made my wife lose faith in relationships and marriage, And she has become her mom's psychiatrist. instead of focusing on our marriage and our problems, she was forced to focus on her parents'.
I may very well always love her, and maybe years from now - after she matures and I've had my successful career- we'll find our way back to each other. But she will have to change a lot and really appreciate me and everything I've done for her. I will never let her -or anyone else for that matter- walk all over me again.
-DETERMINED GUY

[vashti]

Yes, definitely, and I've already realized that about myself. But when we met, I was emotionally crippled, too. An abusive childhood and an isolated adulthood will do that to you. We were there for each other at first, but it ended up with me doing way more than she... It's not that simple. You can't live with someone for 6 years, eat, sleep, and breathe together sometimes 24/7 (and yes, I realize that's not healthy.) We were the poster couple of co-dependency...

UGH! Please stop with the psycho babble before my head explodes!

I was forced to mature before her because I had to handle everything. It'll be a while before I can completely let her go.

You know, you seem a bit resentful of being "forced" to mature. You DO realize that you are SUPPOSED to mature as you age, right? Whether or not SHE matured is a separate matter.

She stopped working in august '03. We didn't get married until April '05. You must not have ever had to be completely responsible for another adult before, or you would understand how difficult it is.

Actually, you are very wrong about this.

She not only stopped contributing money to the household funds and drained what I had dry, but she stopped doing chores so I had to do those, too, plus she withdrew and withheld love, affection, and sex from me. I even had to cover a bad check she wrote to a local business. I also had to cover her share of the rent (before we got married and before she stopped working) at least on one occasion. We had an agreement to split all the bills while we lived together and before we got married, but she blew her money and so I wound up covering her ass. She was terrible with finances.
In short, I gave her everything, and in the end, she gave me nothing in return but broken promises and a broken heart. Do you think it's easy giving to everyone else, and get nothing in return?

But you DID get something in return - something you valued a lot. You got to feel like the "good" guy - the hero - the knight in shining armour. You tried to gain your self esteem by being "better" than she was - long suffering, overworked, underappreciated. You got to be the nice victim, and you DID value that. YOu know how I know that? Because you married her AFTER you realized she was unwilling or unable to contribute financially. People don't do things for no reason.

I bought gifts for her family & her friends but got very little credit from them. My b-day was NEVER acknowledged by her parents even though I got things for them that my wife said they would like on theirs. On holidays, I got obligatory shirts from her dad that I didn't want plus never even fit me. I also gave to several charities and did charitable work while this was all going on. I was always the giver, always the one who treated other people out to eat- you probably have no idea what it feels like to feel so used like this. I gave and I gave and I gave, and got so little in return.

Again, this plays into your long-suffering victim role. You chose to give gifts, despite them being unappreciated. Why? We get that everyone else is bad, but what is YOUR role in the matter? Until you figure this out, I don't see that you will REALLY be able to mature.

But in the end, I suppose what I have now is priceless- self-respect and a focus of what I'm supposed to be doing with my life.
-DETERMINED GUY

umm.. if you say so...

[determinedguy]

UGH! Please stop with the psycho babble before my head explodes!

Well then don't talk to me anymore, because you're being a very mean person. If you don't posess the education and mental facilities to contribute something intelligent and worthwhile, then why the hell are you giving other people advice?!

You know, you seem a bit resentful of being "forced" to mature. You DO realize that you are SUPPOSED to mature as you age, right? Whether or not SHE matured is a separate matter.

No, I am glad I matured and have learned a lot. I'm not glad that I gave so much and got so little in return. Had she matured with me and helped me out more, things would have been much different.

Actually, you are very wrong about this.

No, I am not. Maybe one day you'll be put in my place and understand that. Both parties must contribute to the relationship or it is as good as dead.

But you DID get something in return - something you valued a lot. You got to feel like the "good" guy - the hero - the knight in shining armour. You tried to gain your self esteem by being "better" than she was - long suffering, overworked, underappreciated.

This is just plain mean and unfair of you. You're obvious in a bitchy mood, either that or you're doing the same thing to your husband and you know how wrong it is and so you feel guilty and are trying to rationalize your own bad behavior. I loved her more than you can comprehend and I kept hoping, kept praying that she would start contributing and act like she loved me again. You don't just give up and throw someone away when the going gets tough. I don't give up on those I love, no matter what sacrifices I have to make.

Again, this plays into your long-suffering victim role. You chose to give gifts, despite them being unappreciated. Why? We get that everyone else is bad, but what is YOUR role in the matter? Until you figure this out, I don't see that you will REALLY be able to mature.

You're a very mean person- do not post on my topics again. I gave them because that's who I am. I kept praying I would be rewarded by god because I live by the golden rule and no one else seemed to want to give back. I kept hoping things would change. I'm already aware I've allowed people to walk all over me- honey, you wouldn't have survived my life. Do you know what it's like to be beaten every day? Molested? To hear constant criticism your entire life? To be so angry and afraid of being hurt again that you spend your adult life in isolation? Then the woman that took you away from all that is gone and it's back to that same prison you thought you escaped years ago? I'm not gonna become a mean person just because it may seem like everyone else in the world is. I have faith -something you probably lack- and I believe a good person always treats other people well, even when they treat you badly. You've got me so upset and have so little compassion that I probably will not be coming back to this forum. Congratulations on your superiority complex- I hope it keeps you all warm and fuzzy at night.

[King Zarathu]

UGH! Please stop with the psycho babble before my head explodes!

.............

What, exactly, was the purpose of that?

Well then don't talk to me anymore, because you're being a very mean person.

<PSYCHO_BABBLE>Menopause will do that to a person.</PSYCHO_BABBLE>

Had she matured with me and helped me out more, things would have been much different.

You don't know that for sure. There are so many different factors involved--there is a possibility that you're still not maturing, and she's fed up with your shit! (I'm saying that only because you never REALLY know--and I have doubts about that too anyway so don't take it personally.)

Actually, you are very wrong about this.

No, I am not.

Since when do you know whether or not this person has had to entirely take care of another person, asshole?

But you DID get something in return - something you valued a lot. You got to feel like the "good" guy - the hero - the knight in shining armour. You tried to gain your self esteem by being "better" than she was - long suffering, overworked, underappreciated.

This is just plain mean and unfair of you. You're obvious in a bitchy mood, either that or you're doing the same thing to your husband and you know how wrong it is and so you feel guilty and are trying to rationalize your own bad behavior. I loved her more than you can comprehend and I kept hoping, kept praying that she would start contributing and act like she loved me again. You don't just give up and throw someone away when the going gets tough. I don't give up on those I love, no matter what sacrifices I have to make.

What the ****?! There was nothing mean about what she said but it sounded like the truth to me, which you're having a hard time grasping. When you say that you are still emotionally learning, that's the flag that says "I should quit bitching."

People on this forum are going to have their opinions, you can take it or leave it, but please don't turn into a putz and start bitching. Please. You don't know what vashti and her husband do considering you don't know them or anybody else personally (and even if you did, you still aren't in a place to say that). We, on the other hand, are justified in telling you what we think because you created a thread ASKING FOR ADVICE. Shut the hell up.

Again, this plays into your long-suffering victim role. You chose to give gifts, despite them being unappreciated. Why? We get that everyone else is bad, but what is YOUR role in the matter? Until you figure this out, I don't see that you will REALLY be able to mature.

You're a very mean person- do not post on my topics again.

Oh my ****ing God. Please. Just... stop talking and grow up. Attempts to give you advice that you do not like, understand, or appreciate are automatically thrown back in their face with "lol ur meen." It's difficult for me to fathom that at the age of 15 I can say a wide variety of things about you and your maturity, but I won't to avoid being considered a "mean" person. Instead of being as consistent as a John Kerry speech, I think you should take time to settle down and get a therapist. Mature.

[vashti]

Determinedguy - jeez, how old are you, exactly?