Please help me clean up the mess I've made!

[221bBakerStreet]

Man, have I got myself up you-know-what Creek. I don't know what to do or how to get out of it. PLEASE, someone tell me how to handle this! Let me see if I can accurately explain this situation. Here's the story:

I met my current best friend a year ago, and he and I (I'm a woman!) hit it off immediately. We've been together every single day, almost all day, ever since. We have no secrets from each other, pretty much our own language that no one else ever understands, and we've effectively drawn a circle around just the two of us that even our closest friends can't break into.

Back when I first met him, he was trying to go out with me. The first night we hung out together with mutual friends, he called me after we were both at home and said, "I think you're wonderful, and I want you. You've got a brain, and you use it, and I want to be with you." I told him that I wasn't ready for or into that just yet, and that I needed some time. So he stopped trying, and we've been strictly platonic ever since.

My problem is that now, I am stuck in a situation where I am practically this man's wife, but I have no title and no standing in his life. We spend every waking, non-at-work, moment together. We help each other with everything, and spend about 40 hours a week just sitting and talking, alone. We just UNDERSTAND each other. Through the good, the bad, and the ugly of the past 12 months, it's been Us Against the World. Car trouble, changing jobs, moving, other friends coming and going, problems in our families. We're also co-parents to a puppy we've adopted together.

He had a short, fubar relationship that ended a couple months ago, largely because there just isn't ROOM in his life for me and a gf, and the same goes for me and any bf's I might attempt. I mean, who wants to have a boyfriend who's ALWAYS with another chick, or on the phone with her when he's not? I told him back when his relationship was circling the drain that a big part of the problem was ME, and he said I was wrong. But I don't think I was--one woman to another, I used to see the look on her face when she showed up at her boyfriend's house and ONCE AGAIN, there I was. And what's more, when I tried to excuse myself, he would leave with ME.

Anyway, my problem now is that I am starting to feel crowded. I'd like to be in a relationship, but like I said, it's tough. Any men I meet or know see me with him all the time and back off, and it's tough to get away from him, even for one day. I don't mean that in a bad way, only that no matter where the two of us are, or the space between us, we almost always gravitate back to each other, and we tend to be possessive and clingy where the other is involved. I.E., he goes out of town for family reunions and graduations and calls me 12+ times a day, every day (Not exaggerating, either!). And it's the most natural thing in the world! Anyone else who did that would get a restraining order served. Him--I'd be pissed if he DIDN'T call!

It has occurred to me that I should, out of convenience, just date HIM. However, lately, every time I bring it up as a possibility, I get almost NO response from him, and certainly no action on it. Now my feelings are hurt that he used to be interested in me, and now he's not. Where did I lose him?

It also hurts me that he seems to always be making out with and kissing (and other stuff!) ugly, loser women. I mean, women that HE is even embarassed to admit he hooked up with. It's like he doesn't think he can do any better. Oddly enough, it's not jealousy I feel over any of these women (not even the gf!). Why should I be jealous? When I crook my finger he leaves them cold and comes running to me.

So now, I don't know how to get out of this. I can't lead him by the nose any more than I have already, and I don't want to make a fool of myself if he just isn't interested. And I don't want to lose my best friend. I've also tried putting some distance between us--weaning myself off of him and trying to ignore some of his calls and not be at his house all the time, trying to find other people to hang out with, getting hobbies that keep me busy--but it's like deep-sea diving in a raincoat; the Atlantic Ocean couldn't put distance between us. While I do these things, he's blowing my phone up and knocking on my door, and I am counting the minutes till I can get back to him.

I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

Please tell me what to do, men. I SO need your help on this one. Someone please point me in the right direction. What's going on here???

[Lloyd95]

Men and women cannot be platonic friends. Period. and you're kidding yourself if you think you can be.

Also, I would never date a girl whose "best friend" is a guy. It's strange, and see above.

[vashti]

Why should I be jealous? When I crook my finger he leaves them cold and comes running to me.

I think you overestimate how much power you have. After all, when you express interest in a real relationship, it doesn't sound like he is your lap dog.

[Sooky]

We've been together every single day, almost all day, ever since. We have no secrets from each other, pretty much our own language that no one else ever understands, and we've effectively drawn a circle around just the two of us that even our closest friends can't break into.

I'm not a man so technically I shouldn't be posting this but this seems very similar to a situation I have been developing so just thought I'd share my views in the unlikely event they might be of some help.

We spend every waking, non-at-work, moment together. We help each other with everything, and spend about 40 hours a week just sitting and talking, alone. We're also co-parents to a puppy we've adopted together.

Spending every waking, non-work moment together is an awful lot of time, it almost seems that your some how sharing your lives together in a special kind of friendship, I 've never had anything close to that til just recently when I met this guy who I talk to on the phone almost every night and online. Its kinda strange but no where near as close as what your descibing. From the sounds of it you can't do without each other so why fight it, why not just go with the flow? I'm guessing its because you see no future and you think your wasting you life in someway. Well I guess you really have to decide (and its definenately not easy I know) whether you are prepared to distance your self from him enough to start a life on your own and find another man to share your life with or whether you'd rather spend your life being sole mates with this guy even if your relationship goes no further than friendship with him. I'm not saying something else wont develop but it may take time and there sounds like theres a sizable risk that you would never be more than friends.

he goes out of town for family reunions and graduations and calls me 12+ times a day, every day (Not exaggerating, either!).

12 times a day!!! Wow!! Thats loads! It almost like hes kinda addicted to you or something.

It has occurred to me that I should, out of convenience, just date HIM. However, lately, every time I bring it up as a possibility, I get almost NO response from him, and certainly no action on it. Now my feelings are hurt that he used to be interested in me, and now he's not. Where did I lose him?

I think he probably thinks you don't really love / fancy him in that way. Maybe he even thinks your offering yourself up for a relationship as a kinda pitty or something and he may not feel comfortable with that. Maybe you have to ask yourself som tough questions first, like do I really like this guy in that way, and woud I be prepared to risk loosing our friendship if things get weird as the relationship changes. I've got a similar decision to make in many ways, as this guy really wants a relationship with me I think but I find it difficult to make myself to think about him in that way... I know its tough...

It also hurts me that he seems to always be making out with and kissing (and other stuff!) ugly, loser women. I mean, women that HE is even embarassed to admit he hooked up with. It's like he doesn't think he can do any better.

Is he pretty attractive himself then or do you think he is?

I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

I'm guessing (I maybe completely wrong so please don't jump to conclusions use the evidence you have) that he is still interested but he'd rather keep you as a friend as he feels you are not truely interested in him in that way. Its hard to know, but maybe do some thinking on your own because even if he is still interested in you maybe you need to think carefully if you are really interested in him in the right kinda way for a more romantic/sexual relationship to work...

Possibly you may need to talk to him more in depth about how you feel. What you really need to do before anything else, if you seriously want to consider a more intimate relationship, is train yourself to think about him differently. Not easy, but if you cringe every time you think of kissing him or anything then it probably wouldn't work out...

To summerise the main thing I'm saying is think carefully about how you really feel, before you jump in at the deep end... Is it really worth risking the friendship if you know you've got sizable doubts and oyu know your not really attracted to him in that way? Anyway, try flirting with him in a playful way maybe, to see how he responds, if he ignores it or doen't flirt back chances are he'd not interested.

Hope some of this advice is of some use to you... Good luck with everything!

[221bBakerStreet]

How right you both are. I have no power here, and being platonic friends with this man will not last much longer. Last week, for the first time, I actually said to him--kindly, in a nonfight tone, I promise--that we needed to stop spending ALL of our time together if we were never going to date. He threw a HUGE tantrum--HULK SMASH!!!--and demanded his house key back because apparently I "don't want to be friends with me anymore!"

Thirty minutes later, he left for work. When he came home that night, he asked me to keep his key, and no further mention was made of the discussion we'd had before he'd left for work. And the beat goes on, like before. Nothing's changed with us. (btw, The tantrum and fatalistic, the-sky-is-falling attitude, are both typical of his initial reaction to something he doesn't like hearing, and they're also red flags that SOMETHING I said to him either hurt him, scared him, or made him angry. He'll always talk sense and listen to reason once he's done with that.)

The truth is, I think he's content with things exactly the way they are. I mean, why wouldn't he be? I provide stability, ego-stroking, and emotional security. He's got a WIFE to get all his needs met, but he still gets to date other women. Me, on the other hand....SOMETHING IS ABOUT TO GIVE. I'm 29 years old, and I'd like to get married again and have another kid before it's too late; I don't have years to waste pouring all my heart, soul, time, effort, and emotion into a relationship that's not going anywhere. I would never DREAM of giving any man such an ultimatum, but the bottom line is, if he's not gonna sh*t, he needs to get off the pot and let someone else sit there. Isn't a year enough to time to decide?

The ONLY thing that makes me more nauseaous and heartsick than losing my best friend, is the idea of wasting 5 years this way. This is a painful way to live, and it's getting worse with time, the more it seems that he will, apparently, show interest in ANY WOMAN who shows interest in him, no matter what she looks or acts like....except me. I mention a cd I like, he buys it for me. I got no gas in the car, he slips me his last $10. He buys me tampons, I shave his back hair. But when it's time to look around for someone to go out on a date with, suddenly I'm not good enough? I admit that it stings, and it's stinging more and more as time passes.

But he's also MY stability, MY ego-stroker, MY emotional security and safety. He protects me from everything but HIM!!! I am hardly in a position to disagree with Lloyd95's comment about men and women kidding ourselves, especially when we are both single, available, and actively looking. When men and women THINK they are platonic friends, what is really going on? Am I gonna have to dump my best friend to get on with my life? Or should I wait a little while longer and see what happens?

[221bBakerStreet]

I'm not a man so technically I shouldn't be posting this but this seems very similar to a situation I have been developing so just thought I'd share my views in the unlikely event they might be of some help.

I appreciate your input. I know I am talking everyone's ear off today, but this is REALLY bugging me, and any serious advice at all is more than welcome.

Well I guess you really have to decide (and its definenately not easy I know) whether you are prepared to distance your self from him enough to start a life on your own and find another man to share your life with or whether you'd rather spend your life being sole mates with this guy even if your relationship goes no further than friendship with him. I'm not saying something else wont develop but it may take time and there sounds like theres a sizable risk that you would never be more than friends.

I can't keep doing what I've been doing. It's exhausting and painful. I'm not willing to be this kind of "friends" with a man for years, because there is ZERO chance that either of us will ever have a complete romantic relationship with anyone else, as long as we are the way we are. MY choices seem to be, lose my soul mate, or date him. I don't know how to "run after" a man; I've never had to. Back when we first met, he told me frankly that he was afraid of rejection and would only move on a woman if there was NO doubt she liked him. So before I give up on the friendship, should I just THROW myself at him? Seems I've got nothing to lose.

12 times a day!!! Wow!! Thats loads! It almost like hes kinda addicted to you or something.

Not addicted--clingy and possessive, like I said before.

I think he probably thinks you don't really love / fancy him in that way. Maybe he even thinks your offering yourself up for a relationship as a kinda pitty or something and he may not feel comfortable with that.

I think THAT may be exactly what it is.

Maybe you have to ask yourself som tough questions first, like do I really like this guy in that way, and woud I be prepared to risk loosing our friendship if things get weird as the relationship changes.

I have asked myself these questions, and the answer is--I'll either date him or lose him. I can't keep THIS up.

Is he pretty attractive himself then or do you think he is?

Neither of is is Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, but we both do okay. He's not the best-looking guy I know, or even the best-looking guy in my "Maybe" pile right now. But as the months have passed and we've gotten closer and spent more time together, I have become more and more attracted to him, like I tend to do. Many years ago, I realized that how attractive I think anyone--man or woman--is, depends largely on what I think of them, and my opinion about someone's looks changes as my opinion about THEM changes. Currently, I think he's hot. And he has NO idea.

I'm guessing (I maybe completely wrong so please don't jump to conclusions use the evidence you have) that he is still interested but he'd rather keep you as a friend as he feels you are not truely interested in him in that way. Its hard to know, but maybe do some thinking on your own because even if he is still interested in you maybe you need to think carefully if you are really interested in him in the right kinda way for a more romantic/sexual relationship to work...

I know he has a looong history of being "friends" with all the girls he could never have, and that he's pretty stung from it. I also recall that last fall he blurted out that he was thinking of dating some chick because "The one I want (implied: ME) doesn't want me!" More recently, I "jokingly" mentioned that we should just have sex with each other, for convenience sake, and that there would be no romantic feelings and no bullcrap, and that it would be like masturbating (I was actually trying to find out if he was attracted to me without pressuring him. Boy, did I screw THAT up.) At that point, he said 'I think you just hurt my feelings.' And I said, "What???" and he said, "Nothing. Let's go to Taco Bell, I'm hungry." And he would comment on the subject no more.

Hope some of this advice is of some use to you... Good luck with everything!

Do any opinions change with this new information?

[Ellynn]

I replied to your post in the other forum....

But anyways, you definately need to do something about this.. yes maybe you wasted 5 yrs if nothing comes out of this....but its better then wasting 10 or 15 yrs on someone whos never gonna be more then a friend...

I know it sounds bad to give him an ultimatum, and I usually advise against it...but in your case, I definately would. I agree he should either sh*t or get off the pot!! I mean you guys are obviously older and not in high school anymore...

If you really want to be with him, you need to tell him that.. Instead of just saying..."where do you see us going?" or "Do you want a relationship?" Thats too vague..and it puts him on the spot once again... And who knows? Maybe he feels he will be rejected once again as anything more then a friend.

Be more direct and tell him you want a relationship.....or that you think hes sexy..and that you want more with him.etc. If he is what you want, go after it! I mean he did pursue you in the past, but you turned him down... So maybe he feels hes in the friends zone with you.....even though its obvious that theres alot more there..

If you don't want to be with him, then you need to let him know...and I mean ASAP. Also, even though its probably awesome to get the attention your getting, its definately gonna chase away other guys who might be interested.. So your gonna have to make a decision.....and then distance yourself from him...

[221bBakerStreet]

Thanks for both of your answers. I'm at my wit's end and had NO IDEA which way was up anymore.

You're right--all of you are. My only remaining questions are about METHOD.

Have I not been clear enough about how I feel already? Is our problem just that he DOESN'T KNOW I am interested in him? I don't think it is. I think the reason he has not made me his gf is because he doesn't have to. He already has all the benefits of a relationship with none of the liabilities. When I met him, I think he was willing to do whatever it took to make me his, and I taught him that he doesn't have to do much at all, apparently.

What's the best way to undo this damage I've caused? Will "voting with my feet" be a more effective means of communication in this case than a "conversation" that WILL turn into a debate (he's as wordy as I am, lol) or even an argument? Rather than TELL him I am bailing if he's not gonna ask me out, should I not just DO it?

In the past, I have had REALLY good results setting down boundaries with him by saying nothing, but simply walking away when he pulls a "dealbreaker," and then ignoring him for a few days (once for TEN days) and being unavailable. I have to leave town and keep my phone turned off, but I can do it. And it works! Then, when I think he's been grounded long enough, I come back. I usually hang out with him a couple days without mentioning the incident, then when he feels secure and comfortable again, I tell him, very simply and only once, that "If you ever do xyz again, I'm going to have no choice but to abc. Don't treat me that way again." He says okay, and he NEVER does it again. (This has happened 3 times in the year I've known him.)

I said all that to say this--I know him. He's stubborn like me, and neither of us handle being strong-armed very well at all, and the person trying it usually winds up wishing they hadn't. Direct confrontations between the two of us are combative, competitive, destructive, and non-productive. I think my best route might be just to disappear for a week at a time, and then check in with him every 7th day or so. When he starts asking why I'm never around anymore, then answer him simply and honestly, without whining or needling.

After a month or so of that, he'll either be shriveling up without me, or he'll forget my name. But I've got so much faith in our friendship, I've got nothing to worry about, right? Either way, it'll be nice to know, and this way I won't shatter my creditability with idle threats.

What say you, Oh Givers Of Good Advice? Is this all completely insane or not??? Am I being too hard on him now?

[dreamer101]

Hi, you took the road less travelled eh, and seems u've been on it for quite some time. i was on a similar road, but i don't have any advice to give since there are others her more wiser than me. but i give you my analysis :-) .. will only cost you 2c

I think the reason he has not made me his gf is because he doesn't have to. He already has all the benefits of a relationship with none of the liabilities?

i think otherwise. for a guy the benefits of relationship is sex, and ofcourse all that other lovey dovey stuff... from your post i understand you guys aren't doing it. he even got upset to hear your idea of having sex with him. so that tells me he sees you differently. either as a really good friend or you know, as THE ONE. And he has already asked you out once, so he prob doesn't see you as a really good friend. its unnatural (yes unnatural) for a guy to desire a girl and then just be so close as friends. what is more plausible is that he might simply be reluctant to rock the boat and lose what he has with you. same as you are. esp if he has accepted that he is in your friends zone.

As for the METHOD, I disagree with disappearing for a week. Take the simple approach. Face-to-face. You are attracted to him, have been for quite some time, so just tell him. in black and white. then you can disappear if he is not party to it. you are too old to play games now.

and i dont think thats being hard on him, infact you are being honest with him, and who knows he might have been waiting all this time ... i think so.

[221bBakerStreet]

So if I just say nothing, will he eventually come around? I find it hard to believe that he has these kinds of feelings for me, but I had ONE chance to say yes a year ago, missed it, and now the window of opportunity is closed forever.

If I never say anything, and allow things to continue like they are, will we just NEVER be more than friends? Would he sit by and watch me date and marry another man and STILL say nothing?

[vashti]

You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?

[Ellynn]

So if I just say nothing, will he eventually come around? I find it hard to believe that he has these kinds of feelings for me, but I had ONE chance to say yes a year ago, missed it, and now the window of opportunity is closed forever.

If I never say anything, and allow things to continue like they are, will we just NEVER be more than friends? Would he sit by and watch me date and marry another man and STILL say nothing?

Sounds like your afraid to tell him how you feel. But if your as close as you claim, it shouldn't be an issue... Somethings gotta give...and why would u put yourself thru all this for another few yrs instead of just saying something??

He won't sit by and watch you get married to someone else, because that will never happen. He consumes all of your time and scares off any other guys... Plus, u know u put him first because u want to be with him! So therefore, its time to say something... Why wait around for him? I mean he took his chances a few times with you....and u shot him down! Now the ball is in your court... You need to do something... Its never too late...and then at least you will know...

Then you need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life playing these games....or if u actually want to finally take a step forward... I mean come on....your almost 30 yrs old.... I think you also need to shit or get off the pot!

Either you like him or you don't... Pick..one...and then do whatever you can to support your choice.

[Ellynn]

You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?

What?? He's married?!?!

[221bBakerStreet]

You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?

What??? What thread are YOU reading? He's not married, he's not even seeing anyone.

[221bBakerStreet]

What?? He's married?!?!

NO!!! Of course not! We're both single, and neither of us is even seriously seeing anyone else. And he's got no kids at all (I have a 7 yo son), just our little girl, the 6-month old pit bull we share, that we refer to as "the baby".

HE'S NOT MARRIED!