Long Distance Transition Advice Needed

[dietrice]

I have been romantically involved with a girl since last January, and I have been friends with her since the previous July. We met during a visit of mine to California (I live in Wisconsin), and during my first visit we developed crushes on each other, but didn't tell each other. She had a boyfriend at the time, however. Over the next six months, we talked on the internet constantly (but I didn't go back there during this time), and unbeknownst to me, nurtured her crush this whole time (while I did the same with her but didn't let her know). During my visit during Christmas break, she had a messy break-up with her boyfriend and got together with me, and we've been together ever since.

The long distance thing initially was not an issue for us. Neither of us had to make any lifestyle adjustments to talk on the computer for a few hours a day, and since we had nurtured our crushes long distance it was no problem to maintain them. We'd alternate visits every month or so, and stay with each other for a few days up to a week, and we always had an absolutely wonderful time. Since I graduate college in March, we were planning on my moving in with her in her apartment in California (she lives with some other girls and is also a college student). Things went fine for more than six months, until August when I got very depressed (it was absolutely, completely unrelated to her - it was from reading the famous lifeaftertheoilcrash website and its friends). After a few weeks of this, she started getting fed up with me and began having second thoughts about our relationship. She let me know this, which of course scared me considerably and led me to start acting overly cautious around her and trying to kick myself out of it. My depression was cured in October (not via meds, via getting a better outlook on things), but our relationship didn't really improve. We continued having rather stilted conversation and we had talks now and then about feeling disconnected from the other (but at least these felt like they were making progress, whether they actually did or not I can't be sure). To add to this, there was also a long break starting in August in which we didn't see each other for 3 months.

I think that we both assumed our problems would go away as soon as we had another visit. I visited just this weekend (November). Things went well about 50% of the time, but some of the problems from online communication carried over into real life (I continued feeling somewhat anxious about whether I was getting back to my old position in her eyes and thus took lots of things she did as a sign she didn't like me anymore). She, however, had some apparently fairly severe problems with me this time.

We had a talk today stemming from a talk about moving in in which she said she was still not sure about it. She said that she felt like our moving in would essentially be locking her to me, and that she wouldn't feel like she could break up with me if she ever wanted to. I agreed with this, and I feel the same way to some degree, but since I am very optimistic about wanting to remain with her I would definitely do it if she wanted to. She then said that she guessed she also was feeling sort of "" (yes, she phrased it using a sad face) about our relationship since my last visit was not as good as she was expecting. She said that it was actually very good at some points, but that overall it was not so great.

Then, she said that some things about me annoyed her this time that never had before. When I asked her what, I had to kind of pry them out of her cause "she didn't want to hurt my feelings," but then she sort of launched into a tirade about a couple of my kissing and sexual habits and got rather nasty in the process. I was quite insulted by this, but basically just defended myself and said that I would keep this stuff in mind in the future so as not to annoy her (I did make her tell me, after all). She got very uncommunicative during all this, though, and didn't talk to me much the rest of the night (even though we changed subjects entirely). I was quite taken aback by this since she even admitted that none of these things had ever bugged her before and she didn't really know what this meant but it probably couldn't be good. As a sidenote, she was also much more demanding from me this time, and got rather insolent when I didn't do what she wanted, which had never happened before (and she admits that, saying that it isn't her fault she got annoyed this time with not being satisfied when it didn't bug her before!).

As a side note, I sort of questioned this annoyance thing. I mean, there are things about her kissing and her sexual habits that have annoyed me since the beginning of our relationship, but I never really let it get to me and never told her about them, either. Is it possible she was just idealizing me too much before and that her annoyance with certain things now is actually healthy and how relationships always are (not perfect)? Or is it just a sign that her patience with me is wearing thin?

Anyway, one of our mutual friends was talking to her about me tonight (and the last few days) as well. He says that she was sad when I left (about my leaving), which makes sense cause possibly the best time we were having was at the airport when stalling my departure. After I told him about our conversation tonight, though, he talked to her about me a bit, and extracted a bit of information that was quite troubling to me. Here are the important parts of their conversation that he sent to me, with the screennames removed of course:

(01:01:19) Her: but it wasn't really and I got annoyed by a lot of things and we didn't really have as good a time as usual :-(
(01:01:32) Him: did you still have a good time at all?
(01:01:37) Her: part of the time yes
(01:02:14) Him: I was kinda hoping it'd make everything better too but I didn't really expect it, that's kind of a big jump
(01:02:37) Her: yeah I know, but I just wonder if things will ever get any better if we keep up like this, or maybe we need a break or something I dunno
(01:03:14) Him: like a break from talking or a break from being boyfriend/girlfriend or what?
(01:03:42) Her: well the second one probably, if we just stopped talking it wouldn't really be like we were going out [Editor's note: I don't really understand this particular quote]
(01:03:43) Her: haha
(01:03:53) Her: but plz dont tell him this
(01:04:13) Her: I am really afraid he'll be like OMFG and flip out if he heard this and I don't want him to be upset and have hurt feelings and stuff
[MISSING CHUNK]
(01:11:09) Her: I feel like he's clinging or forcing it or something, I don't know!

So yeah. I can't really tell what her feelings are on the matter exactly, and I'm pretty sure she can't either. She agreed with him, though, that it would be stupid to break up over one substandard visit, and I have another in December that's 9 days (as opposed to the 3 of this one), and before tonight I was very, very confident that everything would be straightened out then. Now I'm only somewhat confident...I feel like she will might have a self-fulfilling prophecy in which she doesn't let it get better.

Basically our relationship is interesting in that if I DON'T move in with her, it's quite possibly the same as breaking up and never seeing each other again. Being a poor college student (well, graduating in March or June at the latest) from the Midwest, I can't very well afford to move to California (where the cost of living is quite a bit higher) and have my own apartment. I don't know anyone else within about 50 miles of her town (and anyone else out there I'd move in with lives literally 200-300 miles south of her), and don't have a car, so moving in with other friends in California doesn't really help either. She was incredibly excited about my moving in before I hit the depressed patch, but after having had a period of doubt I don't really expect her to be entirely comfortable with it again anytime in the near future even if she becomes 100% happy with me again (and I think that is fine, we are too young to have to commit long term even if we are pretty darn sure we want to).

Our mutual friend tells me that he thinks what I should do is spend less time on the internet and convince her again that I have a life outside of her (I haven't really had much of one at college this year cause all my friends either graduated or are overseas this year). He thinks that this would solve her feeling of my being "clingy," which I agree with to a point, but part of her anxiety about "clinginess" relates to the fact that my move to California basically hinges on her. While she doesn't want to break the relationship up, she doesn't want to feel like my future is dependent on my remaining with her.

I am incredibly unsure of how to proceed on this, as it really is pretty much true that in order for our relationship to continue I'll have to move in with her (unless I win the lottery or find some incredibly cheap single housing, which is pretty much non-existant in a large college town). I also think that even if I did manage to find housing that wasn't with her and get a job she might feel like my staying there was dependent on her since I don't currently have any other real connection to the area. I don't want to smother her, especially if it jeopardizes the relationship, but it really seems that my only options are to smother her to at least a small extent or break up with her for good.

[CONTINUED in reply, I really wrote a lot, sorry guys!]

[dietrice]

[Continued]

The short term concerns are more pressing to some extent, and I wonder how to deal with THAT, too. I feel like if I start showing more independence and stop talking to her so often, there will be a razor-thin line between her thinking I'm interesting and wanting to talk to me more, and her thinking "oh, wow, I have a life here too [she does] and it's not really bad at all to deal with them more and him less!" and dumping me. Based on her conversation with him tonight, she doesn't want to break up yet, but she seems to be pretty close to at least contemplating it and I really don't want that to happen.

He also suggested that maybe we should "take a break" until my visit in December, and that we should focus more on how we like each other as friends (which we sure did for at least a year) and stop worrying about being boyfriend-girlfriend cause it's currently being a headache. I would be fine with this plan, except that I would definitely not want to do it if it risked not trying the relationship again in December (which it might, she has plenty of single guy friends that have displayed hints of interest in her). I question whether taking a break and having a good time talking as friends would really be any better for the relationship than just lightening up and doing approximately the same things (just talking to her less often, not dwelling on problems we have at the moment with this relationship, and establishing that I have an outside life, but still being able to say "I love you" at night and such). It seems to me that officially ending the relationship even for a short time sends more powerful of a message than I want, seeing as how I want to remain with her, and at the same time wouldn't really do anything proactive that isn't being done in the plan I have for remaining in the relationship for this month. He said that it might be a good idea because it would send her the message that I'm not overly attached and also would make me look better if she was thinking about it cause I wouldn't be the "pathetic dump-ee," which is true, but once again I don't know if this is necessary or even a good idea. I also don't see how to say that I want to be able to get together again in December, to do that basically seems to send the message "hey let's screw around on each other for a month with no consequences!"

Basically I want to do whatever it takes to keep this relationship going, because I really truly adore this girl and have for much longer than I would admit to myself I had feelings for her. This sounds clingy, I know, but I know it isn't a matter of just not wanting the idea of being alone (I've been alone for most of my life without any problems, and in addition the fact that we only see each other every month or two would make a real codependency pretty stupid seeing as how I could get "any old girlfriend" here). She really does have the best personality of anyone I've ever known and until the problems started a couple months ago she was the best friend I ever had, and if I lost her it would crush me, especially since a breakup would almost certainly result in never seeing her again. It's a really scary situation for me, and it's extremely complex so I'm sorry for writing so much (on my first post, no less!). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[blackiesharley]

Just have a few minutes to give you my take on it but sounds like what you guys are going through is quite normal. The newness of the relationship has worn off, the 'honeymoon' is over so to speak and now you're settling in. It happens in every relationship. Heres a (rather gross) example:

My best buddy met this wonderful lady just by accident. The first month they were together, he told me one night, 'Blackie, she does the cutest thing! Little girly farts under the covers while she's sleeping! It's so sweet' I said OK, whatever turns you on I guess.

About a year later, he said 'If that bi**h doesn't stop farting in her sleep, I'm gonna have to sleep in a God-d**m gas mask!' LOL. Again gross, but it illustrates how people can annoy each other after they 'settle in.'

She obviously hasn't dumped you, it's possible that she's scared (normal) or having second thoughts (normal). It's also possible that you felt close enough to her to share your depression. Maybe, just maybe that wasn't such a good idea this early on but I'm guilty of things like that too, hey, we're only human.

I know it sounds cliche, but you guys have to sit down and have a looong talk. Problem is, like that line out of the 1980's Goldie-Hawn/Burt Reynolds film 'Best Friends' "I want to talk to my best friend but YOU are my best friend."

Also, if you are considering moving to California and might have to end up on your own be aware that it's VERY expensive. I know as I just left there for the South after 35 years. Just something to think about.

[Alicias]

Sorry to hear that.....Bu it did reminds me a quote in scrubs
Every happy couples goes through every other couples' trouble, but the difference is, when there's a problem, either one side will take action and do wtever it takes to save the whole thing.

[Junsui]

I don't know if she's ever been in a long term relationship or anything, but every relationship goes through rough times. It sounds like maybe she thought it would always be good and you two would never have problems. Since it is long distance, whenever the two of you saw each other you were happy and had a great time. So, when you went through depression maybe she saw that it wouldn't always be great. You moving in with her makes her feel trapped. I can understand that, been there, done that. Now all of those little things about you that annoyed her, but maybe not enough to say anything about or get upset about are becoming enhanced. Personally, I wouldn't move there, at least not in with her. You definitely need to have a long talk about this and where she sees this relationship going and make her feel comfortable to be completely honest even if she sees the relationship going nowhere.

[dietrice]

Just have a few minutes to give you my take on it but sounds like what you guys are going through is quite normal. The newness of the relationship has worn off, the 'honeymoon' is over so to speak and now you're settling in. It happens in every relationship. Heres a (rather gross) example:

My best buddy met this wonderful lady just by accident. The first month they were together, he told me one night, 'Blackie, she does the cutest thing! Little girly farts under the covers while she's sleeping! It's so sweet' I said OK, whatever turns you on I guess.

About a year later, he said 'If that bi**h doesn't stop farting in her sleep, I'm gonna have to sleep in a God-d**m gas mask!' LOL. Again gross, but it illustrates how people can annoy each other after they 'settle in.'

She obviously hasn't dumped you, it's possible that she's scared (normal) or having second thoughts (normal). It's also possible that you felt close enough to her to share your depression. Maybe, just maybe that wasn't such a good idea this early on but I'm guilty of things like that too, hey, we're only human.

I know it sounds cliche, but you guys have to sit down and have a looong talk. Problem is, like that line out of the 1980's Goldie-Hawn/Burt Reynolds film 'Best Friends' "I want to talk to my best friend but YOU are my best friend."

Also, if you are considering moving to California and might have to end up on your own be aware that it's VERY expensive. I know as I just left there for the South after 35 years. Just something to think about.

Yeah, I sort of figured the annoyance thing was typical, I just wish she'd view it as typical.

As for a long talk, with her I usually have to kind of force conversations out of her on subjects like this, and it usually makes her agitated and more upset about whatever situation it was in the first place. She just doesn't like talking about problems, I guess, and usually if we do it doesn't actually help the matter. We are incredibly open about darn near everything, and can talk about nearly anything that most couples find "uncomfortable" to talk about with no problem, but when it comes to trying to find out how she feels about the relationship or what she thinks I should do, she just gets upset and says she really doesn't know, and I'm sure she doesn't.

I get the impression from what talks I've tried to have with her on the subject that she wants me to live out there, but not with her, and also to have other connections out there so she doesn't feel like she's my anchor, I guess. It's sort of hard to tell cause she really just doesn't want to talk about things like that cause she doesn't know what she wants, and if she doesn't know something she will get mad if I keep asking about it.

As for living in California, I'm well aware of the expenses! When we were planning on my moving in, it was going to be into a house with 5 other people, so rent would have been split into 250 or so a month. I definitely would not have such an easy time trying to pay for housing myself...I might look around at ads on campus one of the next times I'm up there and see if anyone needs a roommate, and just end up moving in with some random person.

[Junsui]

I don't see the relationship lasting, but I've been wrong before. Her reluctance to talk about how she feels about the relationship and the future isn't really a good sign, IMO.

[dietrice]

I don't know if she's ever been in a long term relationship or anything, but every relationship goes through rough times. It sounds like maybe she thought it would always be good and you two would never have problems. Since it is long distance, whenever the two of you saw each other you were happy and had a great time. So, when you went through depression maybe she saw that it wouldn't always be great. You moving in with her makes her feel trapped. I can understand that, been there, done that. Now all of those little things about you that annoyed her, but maybe not enough to say anything about or get upset about are becoming enhanced. Personally, I wouldn't move there, at least not in with her. You definitely need to have a long talk about this and where she sees this relationship going and make her feel comfortable to be completely honest even if she sees the relationship going nowhere.

She HAS been in a long term relationship...the one she was in right before me lasted slightly more than two years. It was really terrible for her for at least the second year, too, but she was submissive enough that she stayed with the guy even though he was awful to her. Once they broke up she sort of went through an "independent woman" transformation and has since had much higher self-esteem, and I think that her tolerance for problems in relationships has dropped drastically just so she doesn't have a repeat of that! He was always mean enough to her that I guess she didn't even have the opportunity to complain about things he did cause he was already complaining about things SHE did and making her feel bad. Therefore her feeling annoyance with me when she's not on the defensive is probably something she hasn't dealt with before, and this might make it dangerous. When she told me about the things that annoyed me, she prefaced it with saying "I AM WORRIED I AM JUST BEING LIKE [PREVIOUSBOYFRIEND] AND AM JUST BEING A JERK." I'm not really sure what the implications of that are.

I don't THINK she expected us to never have problems, but it is true that we never had any at all until August, and everything that's still happening stemmed from the one problem (my getting depressed). I think it's very probable that we're just ending the "honeymoon" stage of the relationship and becoming more normal and that this isn't necessarily a problem, but I sort of get the idea that she doesn't want that to happen and thinks that the end of the honeymoon stage is the end of the relationship. I'm not really sure how to talk to her about it, either. It's hard to say "WELL THINGS MIGHT NEVER BE AS GOOD AS THEY WERE BEFORE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD BREAK UP!"

I don't know where she sees the relationship going now. She used to actually talk about seeing us getting married before we had any problems, which I think is quite out of the ordinary for relationships at our age (20ish). As far as I know, the normal healthy relationship will feature the same "trapped" and "unsure about the future" feelings when confronted with the prospect of moving in together. However, I think that since she was experiencing such strong feelings for me before (which were probably not the rational way to feel about the subject) she thinks that this more "normal" relationship setup is actually the sign of it being on the rocks. I'm not really sure what to do about this when she doesn't want to talk about it...I think I'll probably try to hold off on talking about it (or anything else related to the foundation of the relationship) until I have actually been there for several days again and thus we've had time to actually possibly heal.

Until then, I'm not really sure what to do, I'm leaning towards being around online less and trying to have short fun conversations with her (sort of like that Seinfeld episode where George decided if he just said one funny thing at meetings and left instantly everyone would think he was hilarious).

[dietrice]

I don't see the relationship lasting, but I've been wrong before. Her reluctance to talk about how she feels about the relationship and the future isn't really a good sign, IMO.

Well yeah. The thing is, she is more willing to talk to me about it than anyone else about it. She just gets frustrated when talking about any subject she isn't completely sure about, because she's quite an intelligent and analytical person most of the time and doesn't like being unsure.

I'm sure she'd talk about it if I pressured her, I just don't see it as being a good idea right now cause it usually makes her flustered. Therefore I think I'm going to wait until we're together again.

[Junsui]

Well do whatever you want to do.

[shh!]

I want to hijack this thread because I am bored. What shall we talk about instead?

[Junsui]

I want to get some more lotion from Bath and Body Works. Anyone like their stuff?

[shh!]

I do!! But I tried a new body cream from a company called Sabon which is very, very nice!

Did you hear Victoria's Secret is coming out with a new pushup bra that has no padding today?

[Junsui]

What new bra is that? I used to work there and we would get all of the new bras for free so we could try them out and then give honest opinions to the customers about them (honest as long as it was that we liked the bra ) I don't think I know of Sabon. I usually use Cotton Blossom or Juniper Breeze. I think I want to get more of the Juniper one.

[shh!]

I don't know what the name of the bra is, but I want to go check it out. I don't need the padding - It makes me feel like a cartoon.

I like the cotton blossom scent, too - it isn't too strong. I usually go for something with vanilla in it though and avoid a lot of the floral scents.

Do you like the salt scrubs? I love to use those on my feet because I hate rough feet!