GIrlfirend and ex-husband issues

[radman44]

Both me and my girlfriend are divorced and we have been together for 8 years. We have had one major issue the entire time that never gets solved. It's her relationship with her ex-husband. Let me give you some background and explain why I am hypersensitive to this issue. When we first met she was living with him and told me it was to save money. He would call her several times a day just to talk about nothing. She would get mad when I asked her to put a stop to this. There have been times in the past when we were being intimate that she stopped to take his call. They have 2 kids together so I get that they need to be friends and talk for the sake of their kids. I have no problem wit that whatsoever. My problem lies with socializing that has nothing to do with the kids. She talks to her ex-husband about problems that have nothing to do with the kids. Things she should be talking to me about. She goes kayaking with him all the time. She has made it very clear to me that she will not change her socializing with him for any man, including me. No compromise. If I have to work on a Sunday she has no issue going to the river with him. He is re-married and his new wife is always there but it still bothers me. If she likes to socialize with him so much why did she divorce him?? Is this weird and inappropriate or am I being overly sensitive about this?

[melancholia]

Why should she change her relationship with her ex just to help coddle your insecurity? She has a good relationship with her ex husband, which is great for everyone involved, especially their children. So few ex partners have a positive relationship, so it should be looked at as a good thing. You have been together for long enough that this shouldn't be a continued source of anxiety for you. You know this woman. You love her, and she loves you. Has she ever given you any reason to believe she would disrespect you and your relationship by acting inappropriately with her ex? I'd love to know why it bothers you that they have a friendship. I understand that it can be tricky to stay friends with someone you were romantically linked to, but they have children together, and they were married, so it's another level of relationship that they have together. I don't think that you are wrong for feeling the way you do about it, but I do think you need to drop it and decide to trust her. She has been clear that she has no intention of changing her relationship with him, so you have to respect that.

[radman44]

As I mentioned I have no issue with them being friends. Let me make that clear becasue I feel that s what you are saying. I do not have an insecurity. It is a respect thing or me. Going kayaking with her ex-husband does not benefit her children who are 24 and 17. They do not go with her and in the case of the older child he does not even know she goes so I can not see how that benefits the kids. I would not go kayaking with my ex-wife unless my girlfriend went with me. I would also prefer my kids to come along who are 13 and 16. You can have a friendship and position relationship with an ex without "hanging out" socially, especially when your own partner is not involved. I guess one other source of anxiety for me is she divorced her ex-husband for another man and actually had an affair. At one point after leaving the marriage she "slept" with her previous husband. This was many years before I even met her. I know the old saying that once a cheater always a cheater but I think people can change but maybe in the back of my mind it bothers me.

[TheEvilJester]

Honestly, I have to respectfully disagree with melancholia.... but only in one very minor aspect. I definitely agree that it is great that the two of them have such a good relationship despite their divorce, especially considering children are involved. However, I do personally think it sounds like their relationship teeters on that line of what is appropriate vs. inappropriate. I mean, if she were giving this much attention to a male friend (even if they had no previous romantic relationship at all) people would be saying that they think there is probably more to that relationship than just friends. People would be saying that friendship is inappropriate and accusing it of being more than just a friendship. So, why should that NOT worry radman/make him uncomfortable when it actually IS somebody with whom she used to have a relationship?

Personally, I don't think being THAT close to an ex is EVER right to your current partner. It's one thing to remain friendly, but you shouldn't be actively/regularly hanging out with them, and you shouldn't be talking to them on the phone all the time. Your partner should certainly never be made to feel like you are sharing things with your ex that you don't share with them. Not only that, but if she actually interrupts their intimate moments to take his phone calls... I can't even begin to explain how wrong that is in my personal opinion.

.....But, even so just because that is how I feel/how radman feels, it does not mean it is right for everybody. In all honesty, it doesn't necessarily make her wrong if she wants to remain such close friends with her ex. I may think it is wrong, but that doesn't mean everybody would. Maybe to her it is 100% innocent and she just doesn't want to lose somebody completely who used to be such a big part of her life. But, it sure as Hell also doesn't make radman wrong for being uncomfortable with that. What WOULD be wrong is if either felt forced to compromise on their morals/convictions and put up with something with which they were not really comfortable.

So, in other words, if this bothers you enough, you should talk to her about it. Don't do so until you can set aside your hurt feelings and give her the benefit of the doubt. You mention it hasn't necessarily gone well when you've briefly talked about it before, but I would be you've probably done it more so at heated times, rather than to sit down and have an honest and open conversation about it. You also don't want to accuse her of any wrong doing, but instead explain to her how her actions make you feel. That, whether or not this is the case, these actions have made you feel like you are second to her ex.

If she isn't willing to work with you, then maybe she didn't deserve you in the first place. And, Hell, if she's absolutely unwilling to bend on her relationship with her ex, then that is perfectly fine. She's well within her rights to do so if that is what she wants.... but maybe that means you need to leave her and find somebody whose moral code more matches yours.

To be 100% honest with you, I would be feeling exactly as you are. For me (if I were you), the point would not be that I expect her not to have friends. Hell, I wouldn't even care if she DID remain friendly with her ex. The point would be that it just makes me uncomfortable how much time the spend together, how it feels like she confides things in him that she doesn't in me, that she will interrupt our time together, even in special moments, and take his calls. Basically, if I were you, it would boil down to it making me feel like a lesser priority than her ex, and that is NOT okay with me.

You're not wrong for feeling that way. You would be wrong, though, if you "lay down the law" or tell her what to do. Bottom line, if she will not bend, then that is her decision. ....However, it is also your decision if maybe that does not work for you.

Good luck to you. I hope it goes well for you.

[melancholia]

The only way their relationship teeters on the line of inappropriate vs. appropriate, is if they start sleeping together. To say that their positive relationship aspects, like going kayaking or whatever they do, doesn't benefit their children is an asinine comment. Of course it benefits their children. You go on to say that what gives you anxiety is that she has a history of being unfaithful, so there is your problem right there: you don't trust her. It's not that she has a good relationship with her ex, it's that she has proven in the past not to be trustworthy with him. I'm not saying you are wrong, but what I am saying is you are focusing on the wrong things here. Your issue is that you don't trust her. Plain and simple. You have also brought this up with her on numerous occasions, only to be met with her resolute decision not to compromise with you. I think it is important to be able to have positive, platonic relationships with an ex, if children are involved. The kids don't always have to be in the presence of their parents to benefit from them having a good relationship and ability to co-parent. However, I reiterate that you are focusing on the wrong issues here. I think you need to be honest about your lack of trust in your partner, and have another discussion with her about it. Try bringing it up at a neutral time, and use "I feel" statements. Use calm, non-accusatory language, and try to talk to her from a place that is not judgmental or critical of her, but that lets her know how you are feeling about this. Your feelings and needs are just as important as hers. You will not be able to move forward from this unless you discuss it with her again, and come to some kind of compromise. If you can't come to a compromise, then you have two choices: end the relationship and move on, knowing that you did what you could to voice your needs and feelings and she declined to acknowledge them; or suck it up, decide to trust your partner, and move on from this recurring issue.

[radman44]

I read your reply and the first thing that came to mind is "exactly". You get my point 100%. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

Melancholia your post is a little offensive. My feelings on the matter are not 'asinine" as you put it. Everyone has different ideas of what is normal and acceptable. Doesn't make one right or the other wrong. We are all different. My feeling is that if something seems wrong and makes me feel uncomfortable then something is not right. I 100% disagree with your statement that her kayaking with her ex without me there somehow benefits the kids. Having family meals, sitting at church together, being friends benefits the kids. Not socializing with your ex without involving the kids. Doing this also "looks bad". What do people immediately think when they see her on the river with her ex while I am working. You know exactly what most people would think and its a small town. Maybe its not right but that is how small town life is. It just makes me feel uncomfortable and disrespected. I have tried on numerous occasions to discuss this when nobody is mad and it always ends up being a horrible argument. She got mad at me one Christmas becasue she wanted too buy her son a drum-set and let it be from us and his Dad. That was fine with me. What wasn't fine was that she wanted me to front him the money for his half and got mad at me because I would not do that. I said if he can't afford it then we can buy the drum-set and he can buy his own gift. It is not my place to buy his gift for his son.

[melancholia]

Melancholia your post is a little offensive. My feelings on the matter are not 'asinine" as you put it. Everyone has different ideas of what is normal and acceptable. Doesn't make one right or the other wrong. We are all different. My feeling is that if something seems wrong and makes me feel uncomfortable then something is not right. I 100% disagree with your statement that her kayaking with her ex without me there somehow benefits the kids. Having family meals, sitting at church together, being friends benefits the kids. Not socializing with your ex without involving the kids.

Again. I'm not saying your feelings on this situation are wrong, but to say that your girlfriend being friends with her ex and socializing with him can only be done in the presence of their children IS asinine. They should be able to socialize together so they can talk about their children without their current partners, or children with them. Clearly you disagree on me about this, which is absolutely fine, I just think you're focusing on the wrong things.

Doing this also "looks bad". What do people immediately think when they see her on the river with her ex while I am working. You know exactly what most people would think and its a small town. Maybe its not right but that is how small town life is.

Who gives a f&ck what other people think? They are not involved in your relationship, so they can think whatever they want. The problem isn't how she is perceived by others in your town, it's how you perceive her actions as disrespectful toward you. Which you go on to say here:

It just makes me feel uncomfortable and disrespected. I have tried on numerous occasions to discuss this when nobody is mad and it always ends up being a horrible argument.

She is clearly in the wrong here because she refuses to even consider your position.

She got mad at me one Christmas becasue she wanted too buy her son a drum-set and let it be from us and his Dad. That was fine with me. What wasn't fine was that she wanted me to front him the money for his half and got mad at me because I would not do that. I said if he can't afford it then we can buy the drum-set and he can buy his own gift. It is not my place to buy his gift for his son.

It sounds, to me, like both of you are holding on to too much in this situation. She is relentless about being active in her ex's life, and you are relentless about putting a stop to that. You are at an impasse. She refuses to bend to your needs, even after you bring it up and try to discuss how it makes you feel. She is refusing to change her relationship with her ex, and you are refusing to let it go, so the problem will never be solved unless one of you gives in. What I wonder, and what my main point is, is what is the actual issue for you here? Is it because you don't trust her around her ex, that you think she may take their friendship to another level by hooking up with him, or leaving you for him? Or is there something else going on? One of you is going to have to budge on this problem, or it will always be a problem for you two.

Look, I am not saying that you are wrong for how you feel, the way you feel is never wrong. But the way you have gone about it may not be helping you when it comes to getting her to see your point. I know you've tried talking to her about this, but you're going to have to try again. Maybe try another approach when you bring it up with her, and if she still refuses to budge, you may need to issue an ultimatum. I am not generally a fan of ultimatums, because it is actually a form of manipulation by forcing someone to do something they don't really want to do. However, you may need to issue one if you ever want to get anywhere. You don't have a hope in hell of getting her to cut off all contact with him, but maybe if you play your cards right, you can get her to compromise on the one-on-one hang outs and her tendency to place his importance over yours. Having said that, ultimatums don't work unless you are committed to following through with your end of the bargain. If she doesn't agree to the ultimatum, how would you react to that? Would you be able to leave the relationship? Or would you continue to put yourself through the suffering of a relationship with someone who is committed to disrespecting your needs?

[radman44]

I had a discussion with her last night and it did not go well. I clearly told her that I had absolutely no issues with her being friends with her ex or him being involved with family events like holidays and special occasions. I just do not like or agree with the socializing with her ex outside of those situations. No more kayaking unless I will be there. She did not understand why I had an issue with this. I explained that neither of us was wrong and that we simply had different ideals and morals on the subject. She would not compromise so I ended the relationship of 8 years. I have learned a lesson and I will find out early on about relationships with an ex for any future relationships.

Thank you all for your input.

[melancholia]

Wow. That is disappointing to hear that she couldn't compromise with you at all, or even try to see your point of view. I am so sorry to hear that you had to end things. That could not have been easy for you. At least you can say you tried everything you could. At this point, I know it sound futile because this is so fresh for you, but you truly deserve better. It's not fair to be in a relationship when only one person gets to call the shots. I know some of my advice seemed harsh, but I truly think that you will be better off. I know it sucks to hear that, because I've been in the exact same position as you and know how it feels, but you will be.

Best of luck to you, dear one!

[TheEvilJester]

Again, melancholia, I agree with a lot of what you say, and I definitely think this is a case of differing opinions, not any one side being wrong. Not at all trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to illustrate that though you may not think her relationship with her ex crosses the line, other people may think it does. Just to put things in perspective.... I can't speak for radman, but here is why, to me, the relationship he describes between his gal (or ex now, I guess) and her ex DOES teeter along, and possibly cross, the line of what is appropriate...

They are doing what most people would think of to be "date like" things one on one. For example, going on a kayaking trip with your ex just personally strikes me as being weird. She can keep in touch with/remain friendly with her ex for the sake of the kids without having to actually actively be FRIENDS. Without going out to date like activities with him. Hell, if she wants to go kayaking, why not go with radman, or another friend. I mean, in all honesty, it's not like it IS wrong. I am just saying, it personally feels iffy to me, which just illustrates the point that I think radman is trying to get across.

Also, to me the bigger concern, anyway, is that she seems to treat the ex like a priority more than radman. I don't care WHAT form that takes, that IS wrong. Maybe/probably it isn't her intention, but when she blatantly cuts off special time they were sharing to answer a phone call from her ex.... how would anybody in radman's position NOT feel the way he does? To me, the kayaking trips and stuff like that are iffy, but things like giving priority to her EX instead of her current boyfriend are crossing the line.

That said, though, I actually 100% agree with your advice. For one, I agree with the attitude of who really gives a crap what other people think? That's not important. If other people saw her kayaking with her ex, they can think whatever the hell they want. It is really none of their business. What matters is if it bothers YOU, which it seems it does.

The bottom line, though, is that it all comes down to respect. It's okay if you two disagree on things from time to time.... but you have to at least respect each other's rights and discuss things calmly and fairly. Maybe at first the conversations around the topic didn't go well.... but eventually you were able to set aside your hurt feelings and just respectfully and calmly explain to her how these actions made you feel. She could have chosen to be a mature adult and discuss it with you. Hey, who knows? Maybe it still would not have gotten you anywhere, and you'd have broken up anyway, but at least you'd have done so as two mature adults who realized that they just weren't the right match.

Instead, she acted like a giant child and was unwilling to even hear your thoughts on the matter. You tell her that, though you realize it isn't her intention, these actions hurt your feelings and make you feel less of a priority to her than her ex. In turn, she basically tells you "F you and your feelings. I don't give a crap." I'm sure those weren't her exact words, but that is basically the attitude she projects by instead choosing to be an immature child and pick a fight with you when you are just trying to have a civil conversation.

As it is, it stinks it had to come down to this, but I think you made the right decision in ending it. I'm just so sorry you had to find this out after such a long relationship. To me, everything that happened could have been explained as just two mature adults having a differing opinion..... but when she simply refused to even respect your side of things, she ruined that chance.

Good luck to you. Believe me, in time you will find somebody who won't put you through this kind of crap. When you do, you'll wonder why you ever put up with somebody like her for so long.