flowers from a friend - help!!

[whaywardj]

indigo...that is some crazy shit...i've never known anybody in their right who would want to watch as their wife had sex with somebody she had strong feelings for. that is just weird, isn't it?...anyway i wouldn't do it. it would seem to me like he was testing me or something, you know?

No shit, misombra. "Doing it" isn't even in the ball park of rational, caring behavior. Wanting to "test" anyone that way is sheer stupidity, or worse. Off hand, "what an a-hole," is all that comes to my mind.

[COAD]

First of all, please excuse what i am about to say.

WHAT KIND OF MOTHER ****** WOULD BE OK WITH HIS WIFE SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE?!?!

----

and now for the advice part,
Tell him how the words that he said made you feel.

[Tone]

Good luck Indigo =/

[shh!]

indigo...that is some crazy shit.

could it be that he just wants to see if you'll do it? or is he kind of a freak? if i could get a better sense of what type of person your husband is maybe i could read it better. i've never known anybody in their right who would want to watch as their wife had sex with somebody she had strong feelings for. that is just weird, isn't it?

anyway i wouldn't do it. it would seem to me like he was testing me or something, you know?

Actually, I used to know a woman whose husband allowed her to have sex with a friend to get it out of her system, but I don't remember him watching. All I can say is, she said it didn't get him out of her system. (As I recall, the husband was having some issues with impotence.) I don't know what ever happened to the friendship, though, because I lost touch with the woman.

Wow, indigo - this is really a sad story. Is your husband normally so apathetic? I am really sorry to say it, but it can't be a good thing that he doesn't mind. (By the way, would he mind if you did this without him watching? I mean, is he just a little kinky, or is he truly apathetic?)

There may be a sliver of truth to what he says about you being bored (I don't know what your life style is like), and I sure do understand the whole kid dynamic. It sure can muck up what otherwise would be an easy answer. How long have you been married?

[artyemi]

Okay. Think I got a read on this, Indigosoul.

First, spend some time considering yourself APART from your roles as a mother, wife, friend, lover, professional or whatever.

I think this is very important because.. well, just because.. How do you feel about your husband now? And the way your husband makes you feel? Imagine feeling like this the rest of your time together all because you believe in giving it your all. What are you committing to? The relationship? Your role as a mother? Your role as a wife? Your values? What about what makes you happy?

Whatever you do about your relationship, DON'T do it 'for the sake of the children'. All that does is shift the burden of responsibility for resolving your marital issues to their small shoulders. Kids pick up on a hell of LOT more than adults give them credit for. Staying together or not staying together 'for their sake', sooner or later, risks putting them in the position of feeling as if they're 'the cause' of your unhappiness...or happiness, depending on how well the two of you roll together with whatever comes your way. Or don't.

And this is great as well. It will be tough on the child, but at least you're not putting the burden upon your child to feel any way responsible for your happiness or unhappiness.

[shh!]

I'm not so sure about the consensus of disregarding the kid. Assuming that the married couple can be civil and kind to each other, statistics show that kids do better when the parents stay married than when they divorce. As I remember reading, it had to do with the issues surrounding a parent who is dating and step-parent issues. (By the way - step parent issues are HUGE, ask me... I know... from both the step- child and step-parent perspective.) Remembering this bit of info is what makes Indigo's situation difficult.

How do you get along with you husband in general, indigo? Does your child witness hostility with any regularity?

[Junket]

but that doesn't make ME f*cked up (I hope)

That all depends on how you come away from all of this digi.

And sleepin' with the dude while you husband watches definitely isn't goin' to improve your relationship with either your husband or your friend. (Just to clarify)

It looks as if both you and your husband have basically lost all interest and hope in trying to stay together so my question is what is keeping you two together?

Also, how old is the kid?

Better to divorce while they're younger than while they're older.

[Tone]

Yea... but I'm a real die-hard for the "giving it all ya got", you know? You're a smart fellow, I know, so maybe you'll relate when I say that I take my marriage problems as a real personal failure...not smart enough, not trying enough, that sort of thing.

Yeah but hun the thing you have to realize is no one is perfect, even in marriage. Mistakes happen and wouldn't you rather admit you made a mistake and be able to move on and be happy with your life than spend the rest of your life not happy hiding behind this lie that you are perfect and married the right man..?

Again you're the one who knows the situation the best, so utlimately it's up to you. And what you have to do is consider YOUR own happiness. If you're not happy and don't forsee things changing, get out. Your child loves you and when you love someone you want them to be happy. So in the long run your child would also want you both to be happy, even if it meant not being together.. and yeah if you are going to divorce it's better when he/she is younger. I'm not advocating divorce or telling you to split up with him, I'm simply telling you to do what is best for you and what makes you happy.

[indigosoul]

First, spend some time considering yourself APART from your roles as a mother, wife, friend, lover, professional or whatever. You and your navel get together and have a few good conversations about who YOU are, want to be, want to represent, believe in...the whole ball of wax. Once you're sure you're clear on that...

Then, prioritize. If who you are says you should take more effort to make your marriage better, then you have to tell your friend to back off with the flowers and all and do everything else that logically follows from that decision. No long conversations on the phone. No charming emails. None of that. They just complicate you're being able to follow through on your decision.

Thanks for your incredibly thoughtful answer. Really appreciated and seems very reasonable to me. My soulsearching in this matter is largely done. Been converging for past several years now. Basically trying to leave no avenue untried. My sticking point is your last paragraph.

Whatever you do about your relationship, DON'T do it 'for the sake of the children'. All that does is shift the burden of responsibility for resolving your marital issues to their small shoulders. Kids pick up on a hell of LOT more than adults give them credit for. Staying together or not staying together 'for their sake', sooner or later, risks putting them in the position of feeling as if they're 'the cause' of your unhappiness...or happiness, depending on how well the two of you roll together with whatever comes your way. Or don't.

See, I lean towards Shh! on this one, that parents who can be civil to one another (and we can) might do better raising their children together. But then I'm having problems w/the less overt effects that "staying for the kids" has. I mean, if there were overt violence or angry arguments (there is some of the latter, but subtle and bitter), at least from a child's perspective that would almost be easier to deal with, perhaps. I mean, you can explain to a child why yelling/violence, etc. is unacceptable in terms they can understand and you can help them to gain a perspective on it as an unpleasant, but still, part of the experience of life. How do you explain to a child about subtle pyschological manipulation and mixed messages about love & respect. I'm NOT looking for an excuse to leave, but I do think that superficially "polite" relationships can be just as damaging to children. If not more because those subjects are ones that many adults never learn to figure out!! And my child is VERY perceptive. I can see the effects already in his interactions w/female schoolmates. Disturbing.

[indigosoul]

That all depends on how you come away from all of this digi.

And sleepin' with the dude while you husband watches definitely isn't goin' to improve your relationship with either your husband or your friend. (Just to clarify)

No, no. This would never happen. I'm not into that. I know my mind. Sex w/another is a deep expression of love and attachment for me. It would be a mess. Even if I were to become temporarily insane (like now for this entire post?!), my friend would never let this happen to us. I trust him completely.

It looks as if both you and your husband have basically lost all interest and hope in trying to stay together so my question is what is keeping you two together?

Also, how old is the kid?

He's 6. And is what keeps us together.

[shh!]

You know your child best, and we obviously do not have benefit of seeing all the dimensions of your relationship. I don't think bitterness and resentment are much better for the kids than outright violence, so I should clarify that I really only think people ought to "stay together for the sake of the child" when they can be really, truly OK with it - no bitterness or subtle hostility. If your boy (?) is already showing signs of distress, then there is a problem. You might want to consider seeing a therapist. Children on the whole are pretty resiliant, but individual children are less so.

I was going to add the possibility of speaking to a clergyman if you are religiously affiliated, but honestly, it is hard for me to do so since I don't respect all religious views of marital relations equally. But, well, that is for you to decide.

Jeez, this must be hard on you. I wish I had a magic answer for you..

[Fyesteema4]

This story is not ****ed up, this happens to people all the time, the US has such a high divorce rate, obvisously shit goes wrong. I suppose some of the other people here prefer responding to posts by 14 year olds asking why their "girlfriend" won't hold their hand in public and what a blow job is, but I think that its awesome you have the courage to come out ask for help. I think you've been doing everything right in this situation, you've seeked conseling, and you've refrained from cheating on your husband, thats great. I don't think this is the best place to come for advice (we're not professionals! ) But my opinion, is ultimately that you should leave your husband and be with this other man. Thats all I can say about it. You should see someone about this problem...best of luck!

[indigosoul]

You know your child best, and we obviously do not have benefit of seeing all the dimensions of your relationship. I don't think bitterness and resentment are much better for the kids than outright violence, so I should clarify that I really only think people ought to "stay together for the sake of the child" when they can be really, truly OK with it - no bitterness or subtle hostility. If your boy (?) is already showing signs of distress, then there is a problem. You might want to consider seeing a therapist. Children on the whole are pretty resiliant, but individual children are less so.

I was going to add the possibility of speaking to a clergyman if you are religiously affiliated, but honestly, it is hard for me to do so since I don't respect all religious views of marital relations equally. But, well, that is for you to decide.

Jeez, this must be hard on you. I wish I had a magic answer for you..

Thanks Shh! We are going to couples counselling at my insistence. Maybe something for my son if necessary. So far, we are mostly on top of it.

Husband a hardcore atheist, so no help there. I am open to just about anything at this point, including the craziness of posting my problems to an anonymous internet forum (here), which I am feeling moderately insane & embarrassed about. If my husband knew he be really upset. Anyway, I'm past ego now in all this. What truly sucks is that my friend is the one I would tell all this to, but can't for the reasons already said.

Anyway, thanks for all your messages and advice. I hope I've been a similar help to some of you. Certainly got some good book recommendations... I'm rather stunned at all that cared to take the time to answer. The internet is a marvelous thing... Shy ppl getting real support & help. Truly awesome. I think I'll be disappearing for a while to sort all this out, tho. Time for obsessing on this to become action.

I hope to come back someday w/some good news & advice for the group.

Cheers,
Indigo

[whaywardj]

What?! Ain't that just like a woman. Barge in, take the goods, then run. Harrumph! Wonder if that bears any resemblance to the decision she's about to make?

[indigosoul]

What?! Ain't that just like a woman. Barge in, take the goods, then run. Harrumph! Wonder if that bears any resemblance to the decision she's about to make?

Not gone just yet, but hey, this is the kind of abuse I get at home! I haven't barged in... I've given lots of good advice on this forum (this is the first time I've ever posted a problem, in fact). I'm not being ungrateful, but I also didn't want to seem too needy and take up a lot of other ppls energy.

But perhaps you are right. I have little, nothing in fact, to lose by continuing to discuss this a little more. Much to gain if I learn something that helps. I'm just a little f*cked up at the moment, in case anyone hadn't noticed yet...

If you are wanting to discuss this further, and your problem too, I would find it incredibly useful, provided I don't drop into a "poor me" mode. Esp someone w/your experience, but i don't want to piss anyone off either. Some responses were pretty upset at this thread. I almost deleted my post until I heard from some of you.

I find this really embarrasing, even tho intellectually I know this is anonymous.